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Transcription

Jamie Flynn / Silvercore Podcast 110 - Fear, your Unlikely Ally

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore podcast. Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years. And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. If you enjoy the positive and educational content.

[00:00:30] Travis Bader: We provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting, and following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the Silvercore club and community, visit our website at silvercore. ca.

[00:00:52] Travis Bader: Today, we're joined by a former third battalion parachute regiment soldier, special forces, counter terrorism expert and base jumper extraordinaire. He's led a life defined by bravery, determination, and an unyielding thirst for adventure. We'll explore the mindset required to face danger head on, the lessons learned from life on the edge and the deep connection between courage and adrenaline.

[00:01:14] Travis Bader: Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Jamie Flynn. 

[00:01:17] Jamie Flynn: Hey, thanks for having me. That sounds like a really interesting Introduction, he sounds like a good dude. There you 

[00:01:24] Travis Bader: go. Uh, good guy for sure. So you've got, you know, I'm, I look at your social media feed and I'm envious of some of the very cool things that you're doing out there.

[00:01:34] Travis Bader: You're jumping off the chief in a, in a squirrel suit. You're, uh, Uh, and base jumping, uh, doing a lot of these high adrenaline things, which I don't know if I'd ever, you know, I, I enjoy pushing myself. I don't know if I'd ever find myself in doing that. You never know. We'll see. But I'm curious about your background and what kind of led you to this adventurous lifestyle.

[00:02:00] Travis Bader: Where'd you grow up? 

[00:02:02] Jamie Flynn: Well, I grew up in a really crap area in England called Slough, uh, it's just outside of London. Yeah, it's a really rough neighborhood, um, come from a really bad council estate. Yeah, it's pretty rough. Uh, yeah, we come from, as you'd imagine, a broken home. My family all broke up pretty young.

[00:02:21] Jamie Flynn: Um, yeah, it's pretty rough. It's not the best upbringing, I'll be honest, and my parents broke up when I was like, nine, and I was actually, weirdly enough, it's not actually funny, yeah, my real mum dropped me on the side of a highway, and then I got, with a black bin bag, and a, another truck driver pulled up, and got out, and he was like, what are you doing?

[00:02:46] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, well, Oh, my dad works for this company. And I was like, how the hell did this happen? So yeah, he calls, uh, he calls them on the, this old CB radio. And they, however, they managed to get this phone call to happen. They got my dad on the phone and, um, yeah, pretty sure. And then I moved in with my dad pretty shortly after, but he was a long distance truck driver.

[00:03:09] Jamie Flynn: Wow. And that's how my. Life started was, you know, just being abandoned by my biological mum, um, and then moving in with a woman who worked at my dad's company, uh, who was the secretary at the time, and Yeah, my dad and her didn't have a relationship at the time. So how old were you? I was nine or just turning 10.

[00:03:33] Jamie Flynn: So that's 

[00:03:33] Travis Bader: about 20, 26 years ago, almost on the date. I think if, uh, Facebook 

[00:03:40] Jamie Flynn: was right. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was like two days ago or something. 

[00:03:46] Travis Bader: Yeah. Does that something that, uh, that date comes up and it sticks 

[00:03:50] Jamie Flynn: in your head? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's a pretty unique date. Cause it's, it's. You know, you grow up and imagine that you're, you know, you're gonna be with your family and that's how it is.

[00:04:00] Jamie Flynn: But you're, you know, the person you trust the most is actually the one that abandoned you, you know, and that's kind of weird and sticks with you. And I think it's probably something to do with how my life has turned out. Um, 

[00:04:14] Travis Bader: Yeah, I'd think so. I think that would have some impact for sure. Did you ever have any communication with her after that or was, is that what it was?

[00:04:22] Jamie Flynn: A little bit here and there, but like, it was so broken. It's just, yeah. Eventually I just was like, no, she, she reached out a couple of times when I was in Afghanistan and whatever. And I'm not really interested, 

[00:04:34] Travis Bader: you know. So as a youngster prior to that happening, uh, Would you seek out risky things or were you kind of more risk 

[00:04:41] Jamie Flynn: adverse?

[00:04:41] Jamie Flynn: No, I was, I had no interest. Like, I was scared of roller coasters. I was scared of everything. Like, it was weird. It was like, I didn't really get into that much trouble until like, I got into my teenage years and Um, that lady that I lived with and my dad ended up getting together, obviously that normally happens, um, but, and then we moved down to a place called, uh, deal, which is just north of Dover.

[00:05:09] Jamie Flynn: Okay. Yeah. So it's a nice area and it was actually kind of a cool place to grow up and I got into skateboarding pretty young. Okay. Yeah. And. Skateboarding is one of those sports where you can't just pick it up and be good at it. Not at all. No, you have to keep doing it, you have to keep falling over, you have to keep smashing your face on the ground, you have to keep hurting your wrists and your ankles and your legs and break bones and everything else.

[00:05:34] Jamie Flynn: It's one of those where it's just like, you have to keep getting up and over, doing things over and over and over again until finally you can actually do what you wanted to do. Yeah, and I think that that's probably where my mindset has come from, being maybe a little bit angry from where my, you know, childhood first started to then the skateboarding that gave me the tenacity of just keep doing something until I've Got it.

[00:06:00] Jamie Flynn: And the focus 

[00:06:00] Travis Bader: and isn't that funny that the adversity of just not being successful at something and having something like some people will find that in the musical instrument, but it doesn't seem to have the same end result. You don't see a lot of special forces, people who really like playing the guitar or excellent floutists or pianists.

[00:06:21] Travis Bader: I mean, uh, ex Navy SEAL, Andrew Arabito. I asked him, I said, like, if you, Didn't go the route that you did. Uh, what do you think you'd be doing? He says, Oh, I'd probably be a pro skater. And he's runs a company, half face blades. They make knives and he's got his, uh, half pipe and a little skate park inside his building that they have there.

[00:06:43] Travis Bader: But, uh, uh, yeah, there, there definitely is a, um, a resiliency that comes from. From the failure, the repeated failure and success. 

[00:06:52] Jamie Flynn: And skateboard is one of those things. I got a lot of friends that were like skateboarders as kids and are now successful in life. And the weird thing is skateboarding hurts, like really hurts.

[00:07:02] Jamie Flynn: It's not just like, Oh, my feelings are hurt. Like this actually hurts your body. And therefore you're like, you become tougher. You become more like driven to get what you need to do, you know? And you do see people quit skateboarding. And I did watch that when I was growing up, like, Oh, this is too much.

[00:07:17] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I remember just being like, no, this isn't too much. This is awesome. 

[00:07:21] Travis Bader: But you were like a badge, right? You've got a broken arm and you've got scabs all up and down your arms and legs. And that's a part of the, uh, I guess the, uh, the bravado or the pads that you can wear with skateboarding.

[00:07:35] Travis Bader: I know I've, I got a electric skateboard that I ride around on. That's a lot of fun. And, uh, a couple of long boards. And this summer I thought, you know what? I'm going to learn how to do it ollie properly. Still working on it. Doesn't look good, but, uh, but working on 

[00:07:48] Jamie Flynn: it. It doesn't have to look good. You just got to be doing it.

[00:07:50] Jamie Flynn: You just 

[00:07:50] Travis Bader: got to do it. So then, uh, so nine years old, I had got into high school, started skating and you said, I know what I want to do, I want to enlist. 

[00:08:02] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, well, yeah, I wanted to, it's weird, I wanted to be a Marine first, just because I come from this Marine town, and that's disgusting, I'm really, I'm disgusted that I literally even said that out loud.

[00:08:14] Jamie Flynn: I'm so glad I made a mistake. Uh, no, I, I kind of like deal is actually like where the Marines used to be in, in England. Um, so that was, you know, where I wanted to, why I want to do, cause all these adults and all, when I was in the cadets and everything, they were all Marines. And I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do.

[00:08:34] Jamie Flynn: And I couldn't, I wasn't. You know, I was 15, I couldn't put on the weight, you know, that they required. And I was like, wow, this is, this is just not going to happen. And then I watched a movie called Bravo 2. 0. Oh, yes. And the whole, which is a long story. Cause actually now I'm friends with Chris now nowadays, but it's quite interesting how like that movie gave me like an insight of wanting to join.

[00:08:59] Jamie Flynn: And then on there, some, you know, one of the guys was an ex para and. I looked into it, read the books and I was addicted to like reading all those books at the time. Totally. The power books started to come up and then band of brothers came on and I was like, well, you know what, like you've seen saving private Ryan, they get off the boat and they all died, shoot, get shot out off the boat.

[00:09:19] Jamie Flynn: Or you get the guys jumping in the parachute and she's like, I don't know, 8% of those actually land. I was like, Hey, I was like, Hey, you know, and you get jumped from the sky. Um, but the problem was around that time I was like, I didn't like roller coasters. Right. I didn't like, like, how am I going to do this adrenaline filled life and be a soldier.

[00:09:39] Jamie Flynn: And, you know, when I'm scared of everything. Right. And that I had no idea what it's going to do. So you were a cadet 

[00:09:46] Travis Bader: at what age? 

[00:09:49] Jamie Flynn: Uh, 12 or something, 13. 

[00:09:51] Travis Bader: Yeah. And then you had your. Pushed a bit, some challenges through the cadet system and a bit of a flavor for what the, um, uh, the forces look like. Yeah. 

[00:10:03] Jamie Flynn: The soldier inside of it was interesting.

[00:10:04] Jamie Flynn: Like, you know, I knew I, part of me knew as a kid, like this isn't what soldier is like, you know, but the other kids that I was with believed it. And I was like, I was like, yeah, I can buy into this a little bit, but the reality of life is a little bit different. And maybe that's where like, Being younger and having that, that, that crap upbringing, especially from the council states, like you have a real understanding of be a bit more streetwise than the nice people from deal.

[00:10:31] Jamie Flynn: Right. You know? So I, I come from my, my mindset was slightly different anyway. Um, and then when I spoke to one of the Marine guys, but you know, the cadets instructors about it, I was like, well, what is it actually like, like, it can't be just running around shooting guns all the time because like, we're not a war.

[00:10:51] Travis Bader: So, uh, I guess you went to the recruiting office. Did they give you one of those, uh, train passes to go down and spend a weekend with the, uh. With the regiment and see what it's all about. No, 

[00:11:03] Jamie Flynn: I actually did this. We had to do work experience at school. That's part of the thing in the UK. You have to do, uh, like a few days work experience with something to graduate when you're 16.

[00:11:14] Jamie Flynn: Um, and I managed to get my way into the, uh, to the PWRR, or what we like to call PW ha ha.

[00:11:24] Jamie Flynn: No, they were, they were the local regiment and they had this work experience. So we go out on like a, a week exercise with them and learn about soldier. And I was like, now this is more like, this is, a. Big boy game now and, and all the guys there were running us around and, you know, just doing field craft and basic stuff.

[00:11:43] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, okay, this is, this is actually what I want. So, and then every time I kept saying like, oh, I want to be a power. I want to be a Marine. They were just like, they laughed at me. Yeah. And I was like, why are you laughing at a kid? I've read the books. Go on. Yeah. I was like, how hard can it be? Yeah.

[00:12:00] Jamie Flynn: And they then made us do this like mile and a half run. Yeah. And the paras thing is like nine thirties, like the cutoff. And I think when I did the work experience, I was way over that. Okay. Like way over. And, and they were like, so you want to be a para, but you can't even make the basic time. And I was like, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:21] Jamie Flynn: Nope. Yeah. And then I went home and I was pretty distraught and said to my parents, this is, you know, how am I going to do this if I can't even make the basic time? And uh, we looked up a triathlon club, um, and yeah, I, I just didn't stop. I was so focused on running this, this mile and a half, uh, that got it down pretty quick to nine minutes.

[00:12:48] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And I would go do the PT or our PE lessons would always be at the top of a hill. So we'd have to run, like walk from the bottom of the hill to the field. And then we'd play football or rugby or whatever we're doing for PE. And I decided that I'm now going to run this hill every day for PE. And I convinced one of my friends, David to, I was like, Hey, this is a good idea.

[00:13:12] Jamie Flynn: Do you want to do it? And he's just like, No. They're trying to get these like 15 year old kids to come running with me and um, anyway, like he, he was, he was like, yeah, okay. And then did it a couple of times a week with me and then the rest I did it on my own and over time I think I gained my. Cardio up and, uh, went to the gym and I started playing rugby a lot more, uh, That'll help.

[00:13:39] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. A lot of, and then skateboarding harder and longer. And I think all these things added up to eventually when I did go to the recruiting office and, and go in, I walked in, I was like, I want to be a para.

[00:13:54] Jamie Flynn: I was like, Oh, thanks. Like, why is everyone laughing at me? And bear in mind, like I was super skinny. I was probably like 70 pounds, piss wet through, you know, it was just like it. You know, you, you didn't wait, you didn't look like it. It was like, I didn't really look that tough or anything. And they were like, okay, if you, if that's what you want to do.

[00:14:14] Jamie Flynn: And they, you're in the UK, they make you pick three different regiments. Yeah. To, uh, where you want to go. So like whatever your first, second. choice. And I was like, well, I just want to be a parrot. So I put first battalion, parachute regiment, second battalion, parachute regiment, third battalion, parachute regiment.

[00:14:35] Jamie Flynn: That's awesome. Um, they were like, you can't do that. And I was like, I just did. And they were like, okay, here, whatever, you know, go down and see what you can do. And when you, you know, when you don't make that grade, um, we can always come back and change those answers. And I was like, wow, that's. Yeah. Thanks for the support.

[00:14:57] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. I was like, why are you not supporting? They're like, but you could do PWRR, that's your local regiment. And this is, and they were very pushy on, on me joining that unit. And they go, you can always go through and do P company the other way and, you know, do it later on and become a para that way. And I was just like, well, there's no way a unit that selects its members are ever going to accept people from a different regiment.

[00:15:21] Jamie Flynn: Right. And I realized that, you know. 

[00:15:25] Travis Bader: They're just feeding you a line just to get you where they want to do. Yeah. 

[00:15:28] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, nah, you know what? I'm going to stick with my guns. I'm going to be like, I just want to be a power. So yeah, went down to per bright and did our two or three day little. And yeah, I wasn't at the front and I wasn't at the back, I was in the middle, but I made the grade and yeah, 

[00:15:46] Travis Bader: and it's like your doctor, you go to the doctor's office, you look on the wall, are they top of the class or they just squeak through, they all get the same certificate on the wall.

[00:15:53] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[00:15:54] Jamie Flynn: Well, I definitely, uh, I was shocked cause everyone was older than me. I was 16. Yeah. I was definitely just like eyes wide open. Like this is insane. 

[00:16:05] Travis Bader: Did you have a goal in mind or you wanted to go? I mean, like after reading the immediate action, Bravo two zero tape books, standby, standby, whatever it was sass in the, in the, uh, the lights or something 

[00:16:17] Jamie Flynn: like that.

[00:16:18] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, I'd say like, you know, trying to get in the SAS was probably one of those goals, but I think every soldier who joins has that goal quietly, secretly in the back of their head. Um, and then the reality comes in later on in your career. Okay. 

[00:16:35] Travis Bader: Um, so three pair and that, so you said SFSG, would that be what three pair is, or is that a separate group within three 

[00:16:43] pair?

[00:16:44] Jamie Flynn: No. So when I joined SFSG didn't exist, um, we just had the three battalions in our reserve battalion. Um, and we just, as you go through our basic training, which is six months of just training Randomness is the only way I could describe it because it did seem like it sets you up as very physically demanding and, and every day was crazy.

[00:17:08] Jamie Flynn: They'd wake you up at three in the morning, two in the morning, screaming at you, just having you like box each other in the middle of the night, boxes, like we used to have like one man, one mattress used to get shouted a lot and everyone used to jump out of bed, grab their mattress and then you'd stand against the wall and take it up and someone else would punch it.

[00:17:28] Jamie Flynn: There was a lot of stuff that was there. We had corridor Olympics that was, they'd have like four abreast in a little tiny corridor trying to race each other. Like there was some random stuff like, uh, even, you know, around this time, Bravo, like I said, not brothers, a band of brothers was on. So there's a really funny scene in that movie that will stick.

[00:17:49] Jamie Flynn: To me, to this day, and it was when they got spaghetti and they went down and they ate it all and then they ran up the hill and everyone was puking on the way out. And I'm pretty sure my instructors must have just watched that because they were like, we're going to recreate this. Like I'm pretty sure that's what they were doing.

[00:18:04] Jamie Flynn: Fun. Because one night we had spaghetti. And I'm looking in it and I was like, oh, this is sexy. And the first guys came through. And as we're coming into the line of the cook house, they're dumping food on us. And when they got to the end of the line, the first guys just had their food dumped in the bin. So they didn't actually eat anything.

[00:18:27] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, whoa, that's weird. And then they were told to run outside. So the first couple of guys in the line didn't get any food. So I was just like, as soon as it got dumped onto my plate, I just started eating. Yeah. And we got to the lane and then just got dumped out and I grabbed an apple. Yeah.

[00:18:43] Jamie Flynn: That was just that I ran outside and gave it to my buddy. He was the first one. Yeah. And I got caught doing that. Whoops. Yeah. They, oh, they were like, what do you think you're doing? Uh, just stood there and they were like, no, no. What were you doing? I was like, Oh, I did. I saw that he didn't eat and I grabbed him an apple.

[00:19:03] Jamie Flynn: That's stealing. Oh yeah. That's stealing. And I'm like, Oh fuck, here we go. Yeah. It's the next thing is we're all push up position down. We're waiting for everyone to think everyone else is doing the same thing now like eating their spaghetti as we go And we're all doing push ups outside waiting for the last ones to come out and they're like no one ever steals from us You know, and I was like, okay And I thought there we go Now next thing is we go to this hill and we're just like running up and down this hill all night while everyone pukes Yeah, and at that time it felt like it was my fault because I was the one who stole Yeah, theft, that's what it's called.

[00:19:38] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. So now it's like, it's not, it's not my fault. Like they had a reason to punish us. Yeah. And I was that reason. So. Gotta love those mind 

[00:19:46] Travis Bader: games. 

[00:19:48] Jamie Flynn: And there was, there was times where, you know, throughout the, you know, my training, that they would try and get rid of people. You realize there was so many people wanting to be paras, they need to weed it down to, before we get to week 19, which is P company, um, which is a bunch of tests, but they need to weed that, those numbers down and, uh, and separate the, the men from the boys.

[00:20:08] Jamie Flynn: And all the way through, you'd have people just leave randomly. You come back to the block after doing some PT and there's like. Two beds missing, you know, or two bed space packed up and gone. So that was a unique feeling. Cause I was, you know, I now can't remember these guys names. And I remember at the time that they were really good friends of mine.

[00:20:26] Jamie Flynn: Right. You know, and that's weird in my mind is like, fuck, I don't remember those names. 

[00:20:32] Travis Bader: Well, you've heard of, you've heard of type one fun, type two fun. Yeah. Okay. So this sounds like type two fun. Like you can look back with fond memories and say, look, there was a good challenge and I made it through it.

[00:20:42] Travis Bader: But while you're doing it at the time, did you recognize this as something that you enjoyed or did you hate the, 

[00:20:48] Jamie Flynn: uh. No, I hated this. Like every single moment, like I 

[00:20:54] Travis Bader: hated this. So how did you mentally prepare yourself for each day? 

[00:21:00] Jamie Flynn: Uh, I just woke up and I was like, okay, just get through the day. And it was just one day at a time and six months, uh, it's just like, okay, another day, another day.

[00:21:12] Jamie Flynn: And it's just like, I was like, eventually, you know, these days will all be done. Like I can't be here forever. Right. Even though at the time I remember like I was 16, it feels like I'm going to be here forever. 

[00:21:24] Travis Bader: That's a big part of your life. Six months at 

[00:21:26] Jamie Flynn: 16. Right. But it was even, it's different to that.

[00:21:28] Jamie Flynn: Cause I was actually, uh, we have a thing called army foundation college. So we're actually. When I first joined, I didn't go straight to the depot. Yeah. I actually went to this army foundation college in Harrogate. Yeah. And we spend a year there learning how to soldier, try and build up our academic, you know, qualifications.

[00:21:47] Jamie Flynn: You're only 16 years old. Yeah. So they put us through some schooling and whatever else. And at that time is. It's a year long. And then at the end of that year, then you've got another period to go to the depot and actually be an adult soldier as well. So it's almost like a year and a half of training. So even though the first part of the year, the college isn't as difficult, you were expected a lot more.

[00:22:11] Jamie Flynn: Um, because if you said, oh, I want to be a para, the standards, like you have to be at this level all the time, but how do you be at a level for an entire year? Yeah. You feel like giving up? Uh, plenty of times, like during the Harrogate phase, I never thought about giving up because Nothing was like too crazy hard.

[00:22:33] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And during that time I had, uh, an instructor there called Brian Budd. Um, Brian Budd later on went on to win a Victoria cross and he was actually my instructor. And every single day he would come in and he was very like stoic and, and would say something, you know, inspiring, inspiring. You're just like.

[00:22:53] Jamie Flynn: Wow, how do you, how are you so fucking cool, but you know, and it was like a figure that would then mentor you through and it wasn't as aggressive as depo and then I went to depo and and then it's a different ballgame. They like trying to get rid of you, yeah. So the AFC is trying to build you up to be a soldier from a 16 year old boy and, and depo is trying to destroy you and try and get you out of there so they can select who they want out of their, you know, selection process.

[00:23:24] Travis Bader: Were there any pieces of wisdom that you were given or that you had that helped you through that? 

[00:23:30] Jamie Flynn: Just every, you know, one day at a time. That's it, eh? Yeah. I just remember that just one day at a time. And that's probably what stuck with me in depo until I did want to give up. Now, our crew or our depot crew, when, when they, when you wanted to leave, you could leave at any time.

[00:23:48] Jamie Flynn: You just had to fill out a McDonald's application form. I love it. Yeah. And I was like, this is psychological abuse. And to be honest, out of everything that was hard, it was signing that bit of paper to go to McDonald's was actually the one thing that kept me from not wanting to do it. That's interesting.

[00:24:07] Jamie Flynn: And I remember going, I didn't sign the paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. And I, what, there's another thing you see that used to hang from a, um, you know, pull up bar. Okay. So you'd knock on the door, you know, I want to leave corporal and they're like up on the bar, up on the bar and then read through your McDonald's application form to make sure you're good.

[00:24:29] Jamie Flynn: So were you up on that bar? I was up on that bar. How many times? Once. Okay. Uh, but I didn't fill out the McDonald's application form. And they were like, you haven't done anything. I was like, I want to leave. And I, I didn't fill it. And so they're like shouting at me, like, what the hell are you doing?

[00:24:45] Jamie Flynn: They're like, Flynn, get away, fuck off. Yeah. And I was like, okay. So I go to the bar and ran off. And then I got, uh, shouted down that evening and it was Brian Budd on the phone. Yeah. And he was like, what the fuck are you doing? And I was like. I want to leave corporal. He's like, why? He's like, Oh, it's too hard.

[00:25:05] Jamie Flynn: It's too hard. We talked about it's too hard. Of course it's hard. Like, you're going to be in power without it being hard. Yeah. He goes, you managed to do Harrogate. And I think you're, you know, you'll be good enough. Just, you got to believe in yourself. And he goes, uh, just look up at the corporal. I looked up at the corporal and my application to leave, he just ripped up.

[00:25:24] Jamie Flynn: And, and I was like, Oh, he goes, uh, and then the phone hung up. Awesome. And that was that. So to this day, the reason I was still in paradepo is because of bright bud. Wow. And, uh, yeah. And then my instructor at the time, and he just looked at me and he was like, Flynn, fuck off. That is 

[00:25:43] Travis Bader: cool. And 

[00:25:43] Jamie Flynn: so that's stuck with you.

[00:25:44] Jamie Flynn: That's stuck with me. And I, and I remember that day. And that's probably my weakest moment I've ever been in my life of failing and giving up. And from that moment, I didn't, I was like, I'm also pretty young, you know, and I'm like, well, I'm not even allowed to quit how I'm meant to quit if I'm not allowed to quit.

[00:26:05] Jamie Flynn: And that, that psychological thing stayed in my head. And I was like, well, I'm not even allowed to quit. Isn't that interesting? And then I just went day by day and I better get through this then. 

[00:26:16] Travis Bader: Isn't that interesting if quitting is an option that's on the table, okay, it's always sitting there in the back of your head.

[00:26:23] Travis Bader: If they take that option away, you have no choice, but to continue pushing through and things get easier. 

[00:26:28] Jamie Flynn: Oh, they do. And I, like I gave up in the mindset of like, I'm going to quit. And I just went day by day. And, and the only other thing that stayed in the back of my head is they can fail me. So it's got to be them now who fail me.

[00:26:43] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And in my mind I was like, well, I'm still scared of roller coasters. I still haven't done any, you know, and I'm going to have to parachute at the end of this course. Like, how am I going to learn to parachute when I'm petrified? And that, that stuck in my mind too. And I was like, well, the only thing I got going for me is that they, they fail me and they, uh, they let, they don't want me.

[00:27:03] Travis Bader: Were you kind of secretly hoping when things got really hard, that maybe they would fail you and that'd be an easy way 

[00:27:08] Jamie Flynn: out? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Like when it was cold, wet, hungry, miserable, it's snowing, I was dug into a trench and. You know, you're just like, what am I doing? Well, why am I even here? Yeah.

[00:27:20] Jamie Flynn: And you're like, well, they might fail me. And that it's just one of those things. And I, but I refuse to lower my effort. So it's like, yeah, they're going to fail me, but you know what, if they're going to fail me, I'm still going to stand there and be like, I'm going out on my shield. They've, you know, I put all the effort I could, but they didn't, it just wasn't good enough for their standards.

[00:27:42] Jamie Flynn: And that's how it, anyway, it backfired and I passed.

[00:27:49] Travis Bader: Oh man. So gearing up for, for jumping, they, what they work you through gradually higher heights of zip on lines, and can I kind of get me up to it and then out of plane on a static line or how's that work? 

[00:28:03] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. So you do, during peak company, there's a bunch of events that happen. This is our final like selection.

[00:28:09] Jamie Flynn: Um, and we have to do like 10 milers, 20 milers, and there's a thing called the trinesium. Which is a 60 foot scaffolding pole, and there's a bunch of different obstacles on there. Like an illusion jump that is like one set higher than the other. So it looks further away. Okay. Yeah. And you have to just like, you stand there and you just look straight ahead and the instructor's like, standby, go.

[00:28:31] Jamie Flynn: And then you just have to, as soon as they say go, you have to move. Yeah. If you get one, uh, hesitation, they'll mark you once. And you have one more chance and then you're done, you're gone. So, uh, yeah, we, we did that and I just was like, Oh, I'm not going to quit now. So I just ran and jumped these things. I was like, well, in my mind, I'm like, there's no way that these things are too far apart that people can't physically jump them.

[00:28:58] Jamie Flynn: Hundreds of people have done this before me and hundreds of people are going to continue doing it after me. Right. So I was like, well, okay. And then there's one called the Superman jump. Okay. Yeah. And it's a huge cargo net that I don't know the distance from the actual ledge to the cargo net, but you have to run, jump on this like seesaw.

[00:29:16] Jamie Flynn: So you have to like step one step and it puts you off balance. And these things are only like a foot wide and you have to keep running and then eventually just. Jump off this like ledge arm out like a superman. And then your arm goes through the cargo net and then you just catch it. Okay. And I was like, Oh, Jesus Christ.

[00:29:35] Jamie Flynn: I don't want to do this. Take some nerve. Yeah. And I remember just stood there. I did everything else. Like I was fine. You, you get up to the top, you touch your toes and yeah. And you're like, whatever. And then this Superman job was like, I'm gonna fail this. I just looked up and I was like, as soon as standby, what happened?

[00:29:52] Jamie Flynn: I was like, okay, ready. And I still thought I was going to fail. And then when go happened, it just like instinctively I was running. And I was like, well, I guess the training works, I 

[00:30:01] Travis Bader: guess so, 

[00:30:02] Jamie Flynn: I guess so. And the next thing is I'm in the air and I got my arm out. And once I left that, that moment, it was, a thing changed in me.

[00:30:11] Jamie Flynn: Cause after that, that week of, uh, our selection, like. I didn't feel I was scared of everything. Was 

[00:30:18] Travis Bader: there a disassociation perhaps at some of these stages there where you're just, you just have to disassociate the mind from what you're actually doing until you can start combining them and enjoying the process.

[00:30:30] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And like, I never enjoyed peak on me. I never enjoyed. Depot. I never enjoyed any of the armies, you know, selection processes, you know, but looking back now, I definitely enjoyed it. You know, it brought me a lot more joy than I thought it would at the time. 

[00:30:45] Travis Bader: Right. So push you harder. Oh yeah. Yeah. And you have a feeling of accomplishment.

[00:30:50] Travis Bader: Yeah. And where other people quit, you know, when it starts getting hard, that's where people typically end up just, okay, I'm done. I'm quitting. And that's what. It separates the ordinary from the extraordinary. 

[00:31:03] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And it sounds bad, but I got, I got something out of watching someone quit. So. It's almost like I felt they're like energy.

[00:31:15] Jamie Flynn: And then I just like, well, I watched someone quit on a 10 mile run. Uh, I'll boot, I'll boot March. We'll call it tabbing. Yeah. Yeah. And as I, as we're tabbing, I watched someone quit, like, I felt good. It's almost like I got their boost, the energy that they had left got into me. And I was like, okay, cool. I can go now.

[00:31:30] Jamie Flynn: Well, that's cool. Yeah. And it was like, oh, clearly it didn't happen. Well, in my mind. Did 

[00:31:35] Travis Bader: it or didn't it? I mean, if you felt that. 

[00:31:38] Jamie Flynn: I mean, I don't know. Maybe I just felt a bit of like. I'm still doing it. And that's a 28 year old man. Right. I'm 16, 17, you know, like this is cool. I can do this. Yeah. And then you watch someone else quit and you're like, wow, he's 21.

[00:31:53] Jamie Flynn: Yep. And I just kept getting the, like the, the, the anyway I describe it as like the energy of that person and be like, okay, I can now keep 

[00:32:01] Travis Bader: going. That's pretty cool because your mind is the thing that's going to separate you. You can go, you can endure a lot of pain, but if you're giving up in your mind, It sure makes it difficult.

[00:32:10] Travis Bader: I just think if I'm going up in the hills and I'll just a tab, what tactical advanced towards battle. Yeah. Yeah. Just for the listeners. Um, if I'm going out in the hills and I'm having a bad day, there's a lot on my mind and I'm having all these fights in my head. And. I'm drained, I'm going up the hill, I'm drained and I'm all this, everything other than what I'm supposed to be thinking about is going on in my head.

[00:32:36] Travis Bader: And it's a slog, but you do it. And other days you go up there and you're present, you're in the moment and you're enjoying every step and you're just flying up. And if you can do that to yourself, if you're in the drain, negative nine place mindset, where you're thinking about giving up, but Hey, someone else's gave up.

[00:32:54] Travis Bader: I'm going to absorb their powers or whatever it takes to have that little mind shift. I think that's a pretty cool observation. Yeah. 

[00:33:03] Jamie Flynn: It's powerful. Yeah. I mean, and who knows this, there might be a, someone else who's more intelligent than I am. Could probably tell you what that actually is, but it's definitely one of those, like, I still feel it today, you know, when you're hiking up the chief and you know, when someone's struggling in front of you and then you get to overtake them and you're just like.

[00:33:24] Jamie Flynn: I'm just going to walk a little bit faster than you are. That's right. Yeah. They feel drained. They're like, how are you doing this? And you're going. Just keep going and look normal. 

[00:33:35] Travis Bader: Yep. 

[00:33:36] Jamie Flynn: In there. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I, I think we all feel what I'm trying to explain, you know, in maybe different capacities, even in the gym, you know, you're looking over and you're like, okay, I'm gonna do one more rep.

[00:33:48] Jamie Flynn: That person's looking at me. That's it. I do 

[00:33:50] Travis Bader: running. Okay. I'm so tired. I just going to take a break. Nope. Cars coming better run. And that was always the game. And if cars kept coming, then I never rest. Right. But if I I'm tired and there's no cars, that was my, okay, I can, I can have a little bit of a walk now.

[00:34:05] Travis Bader: Right. But just, uh, interesting. So when, uh, working your way, what was your first jump like? 

[00:34:16] Jamie Flynn: Oh, my first jump. Jeez. Okay. What did we do? Yeah, it was, it was out of a C130 and Yeah, it's weird because we go to, we finish our training, we do our pass and our parade, and then, uh, you're meant to go to Bryce Norton and do your jumps and then, you know, then you become like a winged, like paratrooper and everything else.

[00:34:38] Jamie Flynn: However, whatever was going on with the C 130s at the time, probably budgets or whatever, there wasn't planes for us to jump out of. So we got straight sent straight to battalion. Now, if you go to an airborne unit. Yeah. As a young recruit with no wings, you are now a wingless bird, so they call you a penguin.

[00:35:00] Jamie Flynn: So now for months, we were known as these fucking penguins. And it was like the moment I thought like I've done all this process, I knew I was going to be back at the bottom of the pile. I knew I'm going to have to like, you know, earn the respect from the guys in the battalion, especially ones that are already, you know.

[00:35:18] Jamie Flynn: You've been to Iraq, been to Afghanistan, or wherever they've been before, um, and I turn up and I'm just like, I don't even have wings on my arms, you know, and now it's like, no, I can't gain respect from anyone because I haven't even got these wings. Yeah, so we, I was in battalion for a little while before that.

[00:35:37] Jamie Flynn: We even got to go on a jump course. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually by that point. It didn't matter how scared I was a jumper, I was like, I need these wings. Can't be a peg. I can't be a pegga anymore. Like I'm not going back to battalion without these wings. So yeah, I don't really remember the first jump. I do remember not enjoying it.

[00:35:54] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. Yeah. As most paratroopers would tell you, they, they hate jumping. Yeah. Really. Especially rounds. Yeah. I don't, I haven't met many power troopers that like military jumping. Okay. 

[00:36:04] Travis Bader: It's not why it's too regimented, 

[00:36:07] Jamie Flynn: you know? Well, getting in there is fine, you know that. When the person in front of you starts moving, you're just moving.

[00:36:13] Jamie Flynn: You don't really hear all the like standby go. Um, and you just run out the door and you just hit it. And usually it's like 800 feet or, you know, like operationally we can do anywhere between 600 to a thousand feet. What we do in the UK? Yeah. Uh, so I think on average we did like 800 feet jumps and, uh, by the time your parachute's opened, you've looked where you are, clear your airspace, lower your container.

[00:36:40] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, you're almost like five seconds from the ground now and then you're landing and you're coming down 12 feet per second. So it's like jumping off a. Really high wall, right? Yeah. No real, like nowadays when I bass drum, like I have toggles that can flare and I can tiptoe land and everything. But, um, no, back then it's like 12 feet per second.

[00:36:58] Jamie Flynn: It's like bang feet, knees, head, everything. Bang. That hurts. PTF. Yeah. PLF. PLF. That's it. Yeah. Parachute landing fall. But you can do it. You can practice all those PLFs all day. But like. Yeah, no, they 

[00:37:13] Travis Bader: put your feet together and that's, and then what happens, happens. Yeah. I 

[00:37:16] Jamie Flynn: remember the saying, they say feet and knees together and hope for a good landing.

[00:37:19] Jamie Flynn: So yeah, that's good. I, and even at that point when I, you know, was parachuting, I never thought that this was going to become a major component of my life later on. Yeah. 

[00:37:34] Travis Bader: So you got involved in some counter terrorism work. 

[00:37:37] Jamie Flynn: Uh, yeah, so in free power, I went to Afghanistan in 2006. So I got my wings and I went back to battalion and when we got told that we were going on pre deployment and that was, uh, that was really quick and I was like, geez, okay, next thing I'm in Oman and we're training out in Oman, getting ready for Afghanistan.

[00:37:59] Jamie Flynn: Big thing at the point of Iraq was all over the news, right? Yeah, it was Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. And I'm telling my parents again, Afghanistan. And they're like, Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. It was no, no big deal. Like all my friends at home, like no one really thought about it. And yeah, they're like, okay, Afghanistan, but the, the wars in Iraq.

[00:38:15] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, and it was, it was a unique thing and we're like, well, we're going to be the first real operational tour in Afghanistan and no one really expected. And I don't even think the battalion expected what was going to happen because we got issued Arctic. Gear, we had like full snow white gear, we had desert gear, we had jungle gear, we had green, like, we had bags and bags of gear just like, wow, loaded up and we were like, what are we actually expecting here?

[00:38:44] Jamie Flynn: We had woolly, I don't even know half the stuff we got issued because. It was just stuff I'd never seen before. And, uh, yeah, we, we, we went to Afghanistan 2006 and, and landed and anyway, it was a lot warmer and we ended up ditching a lot of the Arctic gear pretty early on. Kidding. Yeah. So, but that, so the counter terrorism thing all came later on in SFSG.

[00:39:09] Jamie Flynn: So it was that first deployment as a young 18 year old paratrooper was pretty unique because a lot of things have come out of that. Things like? Things like, uh, the instructor that I had who saved me from like actually quitting the unit, uh, actually went on to win a Victoria Cross in that, in that deployment, the Victoria Cross being like the highest gallantry award in, in the UK and Canada.

[00:39:36] Jamie Flynn: Mm hmm. Um, yeah, he did. I think he pretty much saved everyone in his unit that day. Um, his iconic, uh, they got pinned down in a, in a field, uh, and eventually all went quiet. And no one knew why, uh, but with all, all the stories of everyone who was close to him was, he stood up and charged the three Taliban and he was found dead with his bayonet fixed three dead Taliban around him and his unit managed to, uh, extract.

[00:40:09] Jamie Flynn: So his platoon extracted, did a reorg and, uh, found out the briar was missing. So let's go back later on to find him. And then that's where they found them. But yeah, so what a hero he is probably like. A hero to me in many ways, um, and, you know, I have him tattooed on my arm now, you know, so it's, you know, he's a good memory because he's like, he's made.

[00:40:36] Jamie Flynn: I think he structured my life, like when I was in the army to where I'm at today, he was also the first ever skydiver. Yeah. And he was the first ever skydiver I met. Okay. Yeah. Not the first day. Um, but he was the first skydiver I met. And I remember talking to him about it before he, like, while in battalion and then once he died, I had this like, I was super upset, obviously, and devastated and couldn't really control what was, you know, the, the emotions I was going through.

[00:41:08] Jamie Flynn: Someone said to me, like, you need to, like, take his, like, memory and build something, like, take something from him. Yeah, like, he, obviously, not just a memory of, like, him making sure you stayed in the unit, but take something else. Like, what else could you take from him that, uh, that would benefit you? And, uh, Would keep his memory alive.

[00:41:30] Jamie Flynn: And at the time I couldn't really think. And then one day I was like, skydiving, I'm going to be a skydiver. Really? Yeah. And that's, and when I was on a different deployment later on, I did, uh, on our R& R went down to the South of Spain and, and learned to skydive because Brian was this skydiver that, yeah, stuck with me.

[00:41:52] Jamie Flynn: So. That's really cool. Yeah. For many reasons, like this guy, this one guy who was my first instructor in the army was like, you know, the reason I do a lot of things today. 

[00:42:02] Travis Bader: Isn't it crazy? The impact that we can all have on people's lives. And they probably never know. They probably never know. Do you think he 

[00:42:08] Jamie Flynn: ever knew?

[00:42:09] Jamie Flynn: No, no. I mean, he probably knew that, like, you know. I mean, he knew because he came to my personnel parade when I actually became a paratrooper. I mean, he knew that that affected me, but did he, did he realize that that one day that kept me in the unit, like stuck with me for the rest of my life and, you know, helps me, um, you know, even when I.

[00:42:30] Jamie Flynn: Do deal with things today. And I have young people working under me that I can now, like, I remember that, that moment. And like, how can I have that impact on the persons who's coming to me now being like, Hey, I don't want to be here anymore. One day, 

[00:42:43] Travis Bader: one moment. It's such a small thing for him to give. Very cool.

[00:42:50] Travis Bader: That's something that, um, I think that's something that we should all kind of think about. What, what are we doing? How are we conducting ourselves? How are our little actions that we might not be thinking too much of? How is that impacting those around us who are looking up to us, who are watching us, who, um, yeah, who, who need that level of inspiration.

[00:43:10] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And it's, and it's weird because it's like, there's things that you will do and new things that you will say, and that will stick with people forever. And I can't remember exactly what happened, but someone said, Oh, I remember when you told me this. Wow. Uh, I used to just keep my mouth shut. I don't actually remember saying that.

[00:43:29] Jamie Flynn: And was I drunk? And they were like, yeah, but you said this. And I was like, wow, I never, never thought you were going to act on it, dude. I 

[00:43:38] Travis Bader: drunk, but it didn't diminish me. Yeah. I usually, I'm just like, well, yep. I just, I rack my brain and I'm trying to remember, I think it might be an ADHD thing trying to remember these things because.

[00:43:50] Travis Bader: Like I'll ask my wife, I'm like, I don't remember all of these different events that people are telling me about. And, uh, or, uh, I think I'm supposed to be mad at this person, but I don't know why. And she's like, oh, here's this laundry list. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. And I should be mad at that person. Right.

[00:44:06] Travis Bader: But I just, I don't, I don't retain this stuff like that. Yeah. You're like that too, eh? 

[00:44:11] Jamie Flynn: Oh, a hundred percent. If it's not present and it's not affecting me right now, it's like, it doesn't matter. You know, like people might think I absolutely hate them, but I'm like, dude, I've not thought about you in years.

[00:44:24] Jamie Flynn: That could be even worse, right? I'm like, and it's good and bad. It's like, I also like, cause then I have really good friends, like I have really good friends in the UK. Yeah. And it kicks me cause I'm like, I see him pop up on Facebook. I'm like, Oh dude, I need to message you. Right. Because I'm. I've been a bad friend, but it's not, I haven't been bad because I'm like ignoring you.

[00:44:42] Jamie Flynn: It's like, I'm just like, so focused on what I've got. And I like, I lose, I need to, I need to stay focused on what I'm doing. Yeah. So 

[00:44:49] Travis Bader: it's selfish. It's well, the ADHD thing, they say, um, Oh, easily distracted. Right. Yeah. But the other side is hyper focused. If it's something that's interesting or inability to, uh, break focus on certain things, whatever, however you want to.

[00:45:04] Travis Bader: Term that one, I know you and I've talked a little bit about that in the past, I was diagnosed grade three ADHD, saw a bunch of different people for it and was put on an experimental dosage of Ritalin. Wow. Dad was a cop and he's like, I don't know what this Ritalin stuff. So what everyone on the streets using, right.

[00:45:21] Travis Bader: But, um, I was the highest dosage of Ritalin for the province and did that up until grade seven and finally in grade seven, I'm like, I'm done. I'm taking myself off this cold Turkey. I'm not going into grade eight. What did it do to you? Uh, well, there's two sides, there's what I felt and there's what like the teachers would report.

[00:45:40] Travis Bader: Okay. Yeah. So the teachers would say, did Travis take his riddle in today? Because I can sure tell there's something different, right? Uh, apparently it was a lot easier to work with, um, a lot more, uh, less outbreaks, outbreaks, uh, outbursts. Um. And less disruptive in the class when I was on the riddle. And for me, it disrupted my appetite.

[00:46:02] Travis Bader: It made me, gave me headaches like crazy. Um, I remember going outside at, at when school's over. And looking around, I'm like, how is everybody able to open their eyes? I could barely see, like I'm squinting. It's so bright. How do people, and I never put two and two together, maybe it was the medication dilating the pupils and like, I'd stand out there forever.

[00:46:24] Travis Bader: Just like, I could barely open my eyes and I'm looking at them, am I getting a ride home today? Do I have to take the bus? What's going on? And, um, but, uh, And of course, in the social side, someone would drop a Mentos or something in the class and teachers like, Oh, whose is this? Oh, it's a smart pill. That's Travis's smart pill.

[00:46:44] Travis Bader: So like, I don't want these smart pills going into high school. Right. Um, but you, um, uh, what outbursts, uh, consequences, thinking about consequences is a typical sort of ADHD thing. Um. It just didn't factor into my mind. Like how you said, well, if it's not right here, right now, right. I can think of all the consequences associated with this in a short term sort of capacity, but I just do stuff and not think about how that affected my health tomorrow.

[00:47:15] Travis Bader: If I jump off the roof today, right. If, uh, how it affects other people. So that was always an interesting one. Impulsivity. 

[00:47:24] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. I can, uh, I guess I can relate to that. Um, Yeah, I, I never got diagnosed with ADHD and only as an adult now, I'm, you know, a bunch of these ADHD, probably because I've thought about it now it's popping up on Instagram loads, you know, these videos and they're like, if you have ADHD, you got this, this, this, this, and this, you're like, Oh yeah, that's me.

[00:47:48] Jamie Flynn: So I start researching it. And then obviously as you research it, more and more videos are pumped into Instagram, you know, just like, Oh yeah. And you're like. Every day you see it. Every day I see it. And I'm like, well, maybe I have this. And then I look at my Instagram feed myself and I'm like, yeah, I definitely have ADHD.

[00:48:03] Jamie Flynn: Like there's way, I'm doing way too much 

[00:48:05] Travis Bader: stuff here. High dopamine seeking, uh, rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria is another thing that people with ADHD. We'll experience 

[00:48:15] Jamie Flynn: like I hung onto it, like I hang on to people's sentences. Like if, if, if someone annoyed, you know, was annoyed with me, they would say something or I don't know, it would stick with me that sentence for like.

[00:48:26] Jamie Flynn: Days, 

[00:48:27] Travis Bader: that's a rejection sensitive idiot 

[00:48:28] Jamie Flynn: for you. And I'm just like, why am I even caring what you think? You're an absolute idiot. Like I really, like someone said something about me the other day. Yeah. Yeah. Or like a couple of months ago and it stuck with me for ages. And I'm like, you're an absolute idiot.

[00:48:42] Jamie Flynn: Like you're a jobs worth. Like I got no, I got no time for you. I do not care why. Like, and then I, like, luckily when I say that to myself, it's like, that's the break. Okay, good. But I just remember like, for a long time, it was just like, I was like, I'm getting annoyed with this person. And then when I eventually can like, look in the mirror and be like, Jamie, this guy doesn't matter.

[00:49:03] Jamie Flynn: You're like, oh yeah, that's right. Cool. And then you can move on with your day. But then these little things stick with you all the time. 

[00:49:08] Travis Bader: Yes. Yeah, the, um, learning you, you made a post on Instagram there before about, you know, I don't, I don't learn things traditionally, or maybe I don't learn things quickly.

[00:49:19] Travis Bader: And that can be something that people with ADHD will, will say or think, and it doesn't mean they're not smart. It doesn't mean they can't, but the traditional method for teaching sometimes ADHD. We'll learn in school system isn't set up to accommodate all these different sorts of learning styles. Yeah.

[00:49:37] Jamie Flynn: There's a, you know, like we're too much, but like right now, when I was going through like the fire department recruitment process, there's a lot of things you got memorized. Totally. Like memory. And I'm like, I can't memorize stuff. I have to do, you know? And they're like, Hey, what's this? And you're just like, Oh, I don't, I don't know, just give me a little bit more time and I promise, like, I will work my ass off to make sure that I know what you need me to know.

[00:50:04] Jamie Flynn: I just can't memorize stuff. Right. Yeah. And yeah, that's, that's sort of thing that I struggle with. So I feel like my learning is definitely, I need to get hands on things and you know, it doesn't even people who come back with the most. Interesting facts about parachutes, and I've been parachuting for a long time, and I'm like, I have.

[00:50:27] Jamie Flynn: No idea what that material made up, like, I just know that if you jump this certain way, yeah, this is how you need to do things. And I can tell you why, and I can articulate now why you need to do certain aspects in the sport. But like, I'm not going to go down this route of like, it's made up of this F 111 material, blah, blah, blah.

[00:50:47] Jamie Flynn: I don't really care. Like it's a material that clearly someone more intelligent than me can, can make and actually like, you know, let me do my job. 

[00:50:55] Travis Bader: You know, I, so operation Pegasus jump. I think you've, have you done that? 

[00:50:59] Jamie Flynn: I just did that this, this 

[00:51:01] Travis Bader: little bit. So, uh, a while back friend said, you got to come on this Operation Pegasus jump.

[00:51:07] Travis Bader: I'm like, well, honestly, it looks neat. You know, I'm not a big fan of heights and, uh, but I've always wanted to do this to push myself to kind of overcome it. And what, what a perfect situation, right? And so I call up the, uh, the school there, what Campbell river, I think. Campbell river, yeah. Call him up and he says, love to have you Trav, but this is for, um, active and, uh, Past military and first responders full stop.

[00:51:33] Travis Bader: Well, I'm neither of those aside from cadets when I was younger. Right. But that doesn't count. And, um, so I'm like, okay, damn, really wanted to do this program. Well, how about I go, like, if I wanted to go and just do this outside of Pegasus, is that something I could do? Oh yeah. Not a problem. We start going down that road.

[00:51:51] Travis Bader: I'm like, okay, how tall are you? Six, six. How much do you weigh? Two 50. Hmm. You're gonna have a problem. Like you can parachute tanks. How come you can't parachute? But I guess you got to go tandem and I'm sort of on the threshold. And so I thought, well, maybe the ADHD kicked in, like, I don't like not being able to do things and the challenge.

[00:52:08] Travis Bader: So I'm like. I talked to some friends who are pilots and I said, if I picked up a parachute. And I watched enough YouTube videos. Would you let me jump out of your plane? Nope, nope. Okay. So I did the next best thing. If I can't get the plane, what if I just jump off of land? Right. And so I picked up a, um, paraglider, uh, got a swing Arcus two, I think they're out of Germany, uh, with a cross reserve on the thing and I figured I'll just, I'll watch my YouTube videos.

[00:52:41] Travis Bader: I'll get this figured out. It looks pretty easy, right? I seen Jamie do stuff like this. I know, come on. Um, and my kids are like, dad, we don't want to see you the fastest person going down to the ground, right? We want to, we want to, uh, can you reach out and my wife as well. So I found a fellow here locally and he can teach paragliding as an engineer.

[00:53:04] Travis Bader: So I'm, he sends over an email, nice long email. And I wrote, okay, I read through all the information he's got in this thing. And then a while later I get another email. Okay. I'll read that one out later. Next morning I come back and I got eight more emails on top of that. I'm like, if it was really important, it would be an email number one.

[00:53:22] Travis Bader: Right. So, so I didn't read any of them. Right. And, um, other than the first one and I show up and do one of the training with them and he's, Talking about things as if I knew what he's actually talking about. I'm like, just, just show me, right. Let's just spend a little bit of time, super knowledgeable, super nice guy, engineer background, uh, very, like you're saying, what's the material made out of what's this.

[00:53:43] Travis Bader: So it's a tensile strength. How do we calculate that? So I'm finding it challenging, but, uh, I've done a number of, uh, mountain jumps so far. And, um, I found the, uh, the most nervy part was your first time just kind of working up to jump off the edge. Once you're up there, it's a process of just working your way through and flying the thing.

[00:54:05] Travis Bader: And I mean, it seems pretty damn safe. And if it isn't, I can throw a reserve. So like, what do I have to worry about? Right. Um, sounds like we've got a sort of similar learning style in that respect. He's still having a tough time trying to figure out, uh, figure me out. And I'm having a hard time wondering why he charges 15 a ride up the mountain.

[00:54:27] Travis Bader: I'm preparing you for the culture. This is what they do. They give you your, you got to pay them for a ride up. I said, well. But I paid you for a course. Like this is anyways, I digress. Yeah, no, 

[00:54:35] Jamie Flynn: it's really funny because that's sounds similar to my, uh, how I got into base jumping. Uh, so yeah, I was in, I was in the army and he met this guy, uh, Van Rensburg.

[00:54:46] Jamie Flynn: He's a South African guy had big post on it all. Okay. This guy called Dukes. Yeah. I didn't know him at the time. Pretty good friend now. Um, but yeah, he's this. Jump off a building, big yellow pants. And I was like, this is, that's cool. How do we do that? And he's like, Oh, I do it. I was like, yeah, really? I was like, you're a lunatic.

[00:55:02] Jamie Flynn: He's like, yeah, we'll, we will set up a bridge swing and we'll learn to jump. Yes. And I'm like. That makes sense. No, no, no. It actually doesn't make sense. Don't ever learn from the way I learned to base jump. Okay. So 

[00:55:17] Travis Bader: I did the bridge swing stuff as a teacher. 

[00:55:19] Jamie Flynn: So we, but we then, yeah, we did the little ritual, but we, we went bigger.

[00:55:24] Jamie Flynn: Okay. So we had all our ropes and we're setting up, we're drilling anchors and we're doing all sorts of stuff in a little town called Merthyr Tydfil in Wales. And, uh, yeah, we were practicing jumping off this viaduct. And then eventually I was like, okay, I'm going Going to learn to base jump, but I was skydiving at this point.

[00:55:39] Jamie Flynn: And, you know, I had a couple of hundred skydive. So I felt comfortable under a parachute. And then I went to the skydive center. I was like, I want to learn the base jump. Everyone's like, no, and it's pretty old school. But then everyone was just like, no, no, you got to be like. Sucking these guys dicks the entire time, buying them beers all the time, going out ground crewing for them, telling them how amazing they are, and I find it really difficult to, you know, like, lick people's arses, like, it's not my personality.

[00:56:07] Jamie Flynn: Like, I'll respect you, but as soon as you think that you're above me, I'm like, nah, man, you know, we're good, we're good, like, you're an equal, um, and, you know, and everyone's an equal, but if you're, if you're gonna sit there and pretend you're above me, like, Makes it tough. It makes it tough. So I, I can't respect you.

[00:56:25] Jamie Flynn: So we were, you know, everyone said no. And I was like, okay, this sucks. Yeah. And I was like, well, you know what? I'll just do it anyway, like how hard can it be? So I watched a ton of YouTube videos and I was like, and everyone's like, Oh, you know, I think Jamie's probably gonna do this anyway. And, you know, someone came up to me and it was just like, and actually a guy called Alistair, yeah, he's a good friend of mine now.

[00:56:50] Jamie Flynn: He was like, Jamie, you're going to die. I was like, well, that's funny. Cause we're all going to die, mate. Yeah. And he was just like, no, no, you're going to die base jumping. And I was like. Probably, you know, like there's a, there's a high chance of it. And he's like, no, no, not just like you're going to diabetic.

[00:57:06] Jamie Flynn: I'm like, you're in a diabetic because you're an idiot. And you're going to like, you, you don't know what you're doing and you're making a huge mistake. And I was like, are you going to help me? And he's like, no, I was like, well, why are you here? Like if you, why are you here? Lost point. And I ignored him and I left it and I went away and I was very driven.

[00:57:25] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, how do I do this safely? So I would like skydive. And I was like, at the time I was. Already competing at a high level in skydiving, I was on the British skydive team and I was in a, in a discipline that is very similar to base jumping, but you still jumping out of a plane, you know, the parachutes are packed the same, not, you know, it's a, it's called canopy formation.

[00:57:48] Jamie Flynn: So the canopies are packed differently than normal skydive rigs, but very similar to base jumping rigs and the canopies fly the same. And so I was like, okay, I'm getting close to this. And eventually one day I was like, okay, I'm going to do it tonight. So I got a friend that was in my unit and I was like, Hey, I'm going to do that base jump tonight.

[00:58:04] Jamie Flynn: I think I'm ready. And we went up to this place in Wales and we climbed the tower and I went up and I was like, okay, this is it. 470 feet. And we just, he was like, are you ready? I was like, yep, let's do it. And I just ran off the tower through the little parachute parachute opened. And I was like, that's it.

[00:58:22] Jamie Flynn: That's it? That's it. Like really? 

[00:58:24] Travis Bader: Did you have to watch out for lines or anything 

[00:58:25] Jamie Flynn: else? Well, it was sort of overhung and yeah. And the parachute opened, I was like, Oh, and now it's just like skydiving and just landed. And I was like, Oh, that's not that special. And I was like, okay, whatever. So I grabbed my gear.

[00:58:38] Jamie Flynn: I was happy. I was stoked. I went back to the parking lot and then just turned on all the lights, packed my parachute and went and did it again. Anyway, this is a big no, no in the base jumping world. Pack your parachute again 

[00:58:48] Travis Bader: right there. 

[00:58:48] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, right there. And I went and did a second jump that night. Uh, which is a big no, no because like in the UK it's not, not necessarily legal.

[00:58:57] Jamie Flynn: Right. You're like, you should be like getting your gear and disappearing. And there's me with all my lights on, packing my parachute. So like the ethics went out the window and I was like, and I didn't know anything ethics wise. People weren't jumping with me back then. And, uh, you know, I was this young paratrooper who my shit didn't stink, you know, and I just kept, you know, me and my buddy, we just jumped everything that we could.

[00:59:19] Jamie Flynn: And we just sort of taught ourselves and bounced off each other and, and survived the first probably year, year and a half of base jumping until I got paid to come over to Canada to teach a canopy formation course. So I went to Toronto and Niagara and someone was like, Oh, you know, I'm a base jumper towards the end of my course I was teaching in skydiving and he was just like, you're a base jumper.

[00:59:48] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, yeah, because why didn't you say anything? I was like, in my head, I'm like, well, everyone doesn't really want to jump me in the UK anyway, because I'm like this idiot, really doing my own thing, not really following the rules. And then he goes, yeah. And so I told him the story and he's like, yeah, if you told me that, I probably wouldn't have taken your course.

[01:00:06] Jamie Flynn: But now I've got to know you on this course. Like I like you, I like the way you do things and I can see how like rigid you are when you're teaching. So I'm only going to imagine this is how you are in bass jumping. Yeah. He goes, tell me everything. And he sat me down and we had a beer and I told him how I did it, why I did it and why I did it this way and that way.

[01:00:23] Jamie Flynn: And he was just like, that makes sense, but you're an idiot. And I was like, okay, he goes, what we're going to do is, can you stay in Canada an extra couple of days? I was like, yeah, I can, I can stay another five more days. So I changed my flights and he went and borrowed a bunch of bass rigs off his friends and we went and did like four or five bass drums a night in around Toronto.

[01:00:46] Jamie Flynn: He was like, I am going to get you to a decent level and then, uh, then you go home and do your thing. So over the next five nights, but the one rule was he had to go to work during the day. So my job. Was packing all the parachutes during the day, which took me a long time, you know, so on average, when you start, it's about an hour to pack a, a base jumping parachute.

[01:01:10] Jamie Flynn: So it took me a long time to pack all these rigs. Um, and every night we'd go out and he'd teach me. A new thing or two. And then yeah, at the end of it, this guy, Brad actually like pretty much saved me base jumping. And UK and I had a new outlook on ethics and, and how you should be doing things. And then I started reaching out to base jumpers and being like, Hey, I totally did this wrong, but this is where I'm at now.

[01:01:32] Jamie Flynn: And, you know, I'm trying to change the errors of my way. Yeah. So yeah, I started off base jumping in a completely wrong way, you know, and. You know, trying to reinvent the wheel and the world doesn't need to invent him because it's already dangerous enough. Yeah, no kidding. Um, yeah, over time it, you know, I changed my, my stance and then years down the line now I'm, uh, you know, I give back once a year and try and teach someone or mentor someone and, you know, I don't want to teach courses.

[01:01:59] Jamie Flynn: I don't want to do like make this a moneymaker, but I believe I was very, very lucky at the beginning that now is my time to, you know, I've learned a lot of skills and a lot of knowledge over the years now to. Finally get back to the 

[01:02:12] Travis Bader: sport. Well, what happened over in Kemalia? 

[01:02:16] Jamie Flynn: Oh, Kemalia. Yeah, that was, uh, that was crazy time.

[01:02:22] Jamie Flynn: That was, so Kemalia is in Turkey. Yeah. Um, so around 2013, I decided that, uh, you know, I didn't like my body anymore. And I decided to break my ankle, femur, wrist, elbow, shoulder, and a bit of a concussion. All in one jump. Um, a lot of this, it goes into. Cockiness and, you know, arrogance and everything else.

[01:02:41] Jamie Flynn: And my ego was massive at the time. Um, and so leading up to all of this, like, like I said, being a paratrooper, you, you get through a selection process. You are now like, you're the, you're the best of the best that they had that selection. You watched everyone leave. You're like, well, I'm fucking better than you.

[01:02:59] Jamie Flynn: Um, I've done this course on better than you. Yeah. And you're drilled into that, you drilled into it all the time. Like you're better than everyone else. So cool. I believe that. Yeah. Then I got into skydiving and I was like on the British skydive team and I'm teaching people. So I'm like, well, fuck, I'm winning all the competitions that UK like must be better than most people.

[01:03:17] Jamie Flynn: So, and then I went to 2012, I went to the base jumping world championships and. I beat the guy that was in that poster and the big yellow pants. Yeah, me and him were in the, in the finals together. And that was like, I looked at him and it was just like a. I, I joined this sport because of your poster and now me and you are in the finals together.

[01:03:40] Jamie Flynn: Wow. Gonna jump. So that was really cool. Um, so that was a year before I got hurt and he jumped, he landed and he hit dead, or what I thought was dead center. And then I beat him by two centimeters. Wow. And that was a unique. time in my life and, you know, winning the world championships there in Spain. And, uh, you know, I was like, whoa, I don't know how I'm a world champion now, but I fucking am.

[01:04:08] Jamie Flynn: That's fucking weird. So now I got these things that are like building your, like, your ego into like something else. Like, you know, and eventually I went down to, you know, Kemali, Turkey and, and they had a pontoon in the, in the middle of the river. Yeah, and it was like an eight by six pontoon that you got to land on.

[01:04:27] Jamie Flynn: Not a problem, but we were wingsuiting out of this little microlight, and I was like, I don't know what it would be like if the water fills up the wingsuit if I miss. Yeah, and everyone else was like, no, well don't miss then, just land on the top, and I'm like, And I'm like, well yeah, don't miss, but like, my mind works in a different way.

[01:04:45] Jamie Flynn: Cause I, I like to think even every base jump I do now, I try and talk myself out of the base jump. So I'm going, what's wrong? Yeah. I need to find, I'm looking for everything that's wrong. Yeah. But if there's nothing wrong and it's good to go, then it's a good time to jump. Cause I've got, I've done it backwards where everyone else wants to jump and tries to rule out everything else.

[01:05:09] Jamie Flynn: The things are actually happening. Yeah. So I try and do that in a different way. And I try and teach people that way, you know, cause it's, it's a better way to, okay, well, nothing else can do now. And now I can, now I can jump. Um, so anyway, I looked at that and I was like, well, it's not a good idea. Um, so on the way up to where we were going to take off, I found a parking lot and I was like, Hey guys, I'm going to land here.

[01:05:33] Jamie Flynn: And they're like, but we're filming this show and you need to land here. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool. But I'm landing here. So do what you need to do. And they're like, well, would you try and land on the pontoon? And I was like, well, it's parallel. And I was like, you know what? I'll open my parachute. I'll see where I'm at.

[01:05:51] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And if it, if I feel good at that point, then I'll land and go there. But in my mind, I was thinking I'm going to land. Right. So there was a lot of things going on in my mind. I was like, well, I was, I was already not committed to this. Like, why not just say, you know, this is where I'm landing and I probably would have been okay.

[01:06:08] Jamie Flynn: But then I was like mixed message in my mind and I wasn't really feeling it. Then I got. Onto the, you know, the, the, the morning of the jump. And funny enough, I wasn't actually even meant to be on the jump. Yeah. That guy in the big yellow pants dudes, it was him. Who's meant to be on the jump. So we all partied the night before he was hung over.

[01:06:30] Jamie Flynn: Um, couldn't wake him up and I was having breakfast and they're like, who wants to fly a wingsuit? And I was like, well, I'll do it. And they're like, okay, jump on, let's go. So I forget my helmet. And we're driving up and I was like, shit, I forgot my helmet. And they were like, you're not making us go back. And I was like, yeah, let's go back.

[01:06:47] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, no, no, you know what? It's only a skydive. Just keep going. Yeah. And then I was like, you know what? Stop. Go back. Let's go and get my helmet. Yeah. And everyone was like, Jerry, make up your fucking mind. I was like, okay, I need my helmet. I need my helmet. So I ran back. Yeah. And I grabbed my helmet and I ran in.

[01:07:03] Jamie Flynn: Everyone's like, oh, now we're gonna be late. The wind's gonna be, it was tight. And I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry, guys. I was like, look, I'll go last. You guys go go before me make sure you can get the windows and and if I get a window then you know, whatever So they all jumped and land on the pontoon. There's my turn.

[01:07:18] Jamie Flynn: I went up and I wasn't feeling right at all I was like so many I have a rule of threes and I'll tell you that afterwards, but I was already on like the fourth thing that went wrong that morning. Yeah, and I was like, well, you know, I was fine It's just a skydive It's not really a base jump and I jump out and my wingsuit inflated and I was like, well, that doesn't feel right.

[01:07:40] Jamie Flynn: And then it was like a little bumpy with a bit of wind up there. And I was like, well, that's all right. Like it's fine. I'll just keep flying. And then I opened my parachute and I'm still not feeling it. Like, uh, and I'm in the middle now of these two landing areas and I'm like, no, I'm going for the. The, the car park, like that's what I committed.

[01:07:57] Jamie Flynn: And then as I'm flying, I'm getting a bit of turbulence under my parachute. And then my, my wing is just like dropping lower down. I'm just like, why am I not making this? This is weird. So I looked down and I see like this little grassy field. And it's like probably a hundred meters short of the actual car park.

[01:08:17] Jamie Flynn: And I was like, you know what? It doesn't matter. Like you're a world champion, base jumper, you've landed on like a coin, like you can land on whatever you need to do. So I was like, yeah, perfect. So I spun it down and come into land. And as I get down to like 50 feet, so you're like your finals coming in.

[01:08:31] Jamie Flynn: I'm like, oh shit, that's not a grassy field. That's a boulder field. Yeah. And it's got long grass coming out. I was like, oh, I got nowhere else to go. And I'm looking around and it's just. Boulders everywhere and I'm like, Oh, so I see this huge boulder, probably the size of a car. And I was like, I'm going to go for that.

[01:08:47] Jamie Flynn: I'm going to try and land on top of it. I can do it. Yeah, and it was my only real chance, uh, came into land and there's a little bit more momentum come out a bit more speed that couldn't wash it off. So as I like landed on this thing, my foot slipped, went down the rock, fell in between another rock and the momentum carried me forward while my ankle was stuck between the two rocks.

[01:09:10] Jamie Flynn: So my ankle went to like snap 90 degrees and then the rest of it, like my wrist, my femur, my elbow, my shoulder smashed my head. So. And then, you know, you're, I was a medic at the time, so, you know, from the army, so I thought I'd look down at my leg and I'm like, Oh, okay. So I put it out and it's just dangling 90 degrees.

[01:09:30] Jamie Flynn: And yeah, that moment I was like, well, I'm fuck knows these guys don't even know I'm here. Cause they're all filming at the pontoon that's down on the river. And as I'm like assessing my legs, like it, you couldn't really tell it was a femur break. Cause I broke it so high up. So it was in the pelvis and I'm thinking, Oh, you're going to.

[01:09:48] Jamie Flynn: Bleed out now. It's a hell of a break. Yeah. No one's gonna, you know, my, my pelvis was swollen and I was like, ah, I'm just going to die here. So I was like, but you're not just going to lie here. You're going to start trying to get out. So there was no way of, I didn't have a radio on me. Like why, why didn't I have a radio?

[01:10:05] Jamie Flynn: Like. These are like all these things I'm going, well, why are you not doing the things that you said you would do them? But like, it goes into like, my, my ego was so big. I was like, of course, nothing's going to happen. It's fine. It's a skydive. Yeah. And eventually I was like, well, I guess you got to help yourself.

[01:10:19] Jamie Flynn: So I started to try and crawl. Yeah. And it's probably the most agonizing half an hour of my life. Yeah. And I was screaming as loud as I could, but. You know, I didn't know what else was going on, but everyone else was like, where's Jamie? Like, so they're frantically looking for me. They're driving up to the parking lot.

[01:10:34] Jamie Flynn: They can't see me, you know, and I'm in this boulder field further afield. And, um, yeah, and I'm just, just screaming and crawling. And eventually I get under this tree. And I'm just like, well, uh, this is it. I can't go anymore. Literally. I can't move anymore. I've given up. And I finally, I was like, I laid there and I looked up at the sky.

[01:10:57] Jamie Flynn: I was like, that's, this is it. I am finally failing at something pretty bad. And I was like, well, you know, it's been good. Uh, I was in so much, like the pain was unreal. And I, was I in and out of consciousness? I don't know. Um, but I just remember like. It just crazy times and yeah, I grew up Catholic. So I was like, well, you better, better say something just in case, you know?

[01:11:23] Jamie Flynn: So I thought as you walk through the valley of shadow of death and then I broke into Coolio and I sang,

[01:11:35] Jamie Flynn: I sang Gangster's Paradise instead.

[01:11:40] Travis Bader: Cause I wouldn't stick in the head a little bit better. Yeah. 

[01:11:42] Jamie Flynn: So I signed that and I made myself laugh and I was like, okay, cool. Um, and then luckily someone came across some Turkish guy and then I was shouting the mayor's name and then they called the mayor and the mayor got the paramedics. And then we, the paramedics turned up and, uh, four and a half hours later on a logging road, I was at a hospital and spent, I don't know how many days in a hospital over there.

[01:12:08] Jamie Flynn: And then. It took a long time and it was pretty gross because in Turkey, the family normally come and look after you. And I didn't really have a family there because it was a base jumping event. So we had to pay people to come and clean me and do stuff. The food was terrible. I was broken. The Turkish doctors put me together, like they didn't really have the machines.

[01:12:28] Jamie Flynn: Um, so they were like ramming me in, like I was in a child's like MRI scanner. Yeah. But like my shoulders weren't fit. So that pushing me into the machine and. Uh, it's just crazy. Some of the things that, you know, you see out there, it's crazy. It's, it's a different world. Yeah. And it will describe it's like a, a really bad prison.

[01:12:49] Jamie Flynn: And I was on this bed, uh, over time, I got back to the UK and spent 31 days in hospital in the UK as well. Um. 

[01:12:59] Travis Bader: Psychologically, what's that got to do to you. You're top of the world and now you're. 

[01:13:03] Jamie Flynn: I was nothing, you know, I was, I was completely broken and realized that, well, I'm not invincible. You know, and at that point you have to remember, like I did all the cool stuff.

[01:13:15] Jamie Flynn: Like I was, I did all the stuff with 3PARA, I was already through the SFSG stuff, I did all my counter terrorism, all the tours I did there that were associated with Beast Squadron SAS, like, kicking doors down nightly, I'm a base jumper, skydiver, like, I've done it, like, a lot in my life at this point, I'm lying now, I'm like, and now I'm just here.

[01:13:35] Jamie Flynn: Now what, now what, like they, they're telling me I might not even walk, you know, like my ankle was so messed up that they thought that it was, you know, there was discussion of having an amputated and I'm like, how did I go to Afghanistan, Iraq and not get blown up? And then I go base jumping and lose my leg.

[01:13:50] Jamie Flynn: Like, yeah, so yeah, it was a, it was a heavy, heavy idea of what my life was going to be like, and I thought that was pretty much it. How'd you 

[01:14:03] Travis Bader: deal with that? 

[01:14:06] Jamie Flynn: Who knows, uh, I got through one day at a time. And it goes back to, back to the training and just one day and see what happens, you know. I just did, you know, just tackled each day at a time and just worked hard and did what the physio said and, and got it done, and over time it just got better, the pain didn't really go away, the pain still bugs me to this day, but yeah, it's just like, just, you just gotta take one day at a time.

[01:14:37] Jamie Flynn: Did it make you gun shy? No, I was very focused on getting back to base jumping that that was like my one goal to be like, this is, this is what kept me going. Yeah, I was like, you need to get back to base jumping and you need to get back on the horse and, and do it again. Because if you don't, this is the end of your base jumping world.

[01:14:58] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, but I did have a mindset of like something needs to change. Yeah, because my ego was the thing that fucked me on that jump. 

[01:15:06] Travis Bader: How'd you change it? Or did it change 

[01:15:09] Jamie Flynn: it for you? That did change it for me, but I also had to look back at everything, like, you know, and. Microanalyze everything I've ever said to someone, you know, like, you're like, Oh wow, you, you did this.

[01:15:22] Jamie Flynn: And I looked back at all these actions I did leading up to this and interactions I had with people and arrogance. And, and I said, how do I fix this? You know, like how, you know, I've heard the things people say about you behind your back. And you're like, how do I fix it? How do I become a better base jumper?

[01:15:39] Jamie Flynn: And how can I start again? And then I was like, and then that's where the idea came from. It was like, how about I just start again? Like literally from this moment, I start everything again, everything, everything. So we created a documentary called, uh, back to basics. Um, and I wanted the story to be like, okay, I was this ex paratrooper SF.

[01:16:07] Jamie Flynn: Whatever it is that, you know, I was before, I now need to just start again, you know, and I'm gonna then, you know, start from the crash, so it had a little bit of my past in, and then it goes back to the recovery. How do I deal with this mentally, day in, day out, going to the swimming pool, doing all the exercises, and then learning to skydive again, learning to base jump, but doing it this way, doing it the proper way that you are meant to learn to base jump, not the way I did it before.

[01:16:33] Jamie Flynn: Um, yeah. And then it got all the way back to actually jumping in front of a huge crowd, uh, for a demo. And that was a six part documentary series. 

[01:16:43] Travis Bader: So it was a bit of an existential crisis had changed, not just how you jump and how you approach, but how you approach life in general. Yeah. 

[01:16:50] Jamie Flynn: I realized at that point how lucky I was to like, not be a statistic on a base fatality list anymore.

[01:16:56] Jamie Flynn: Like we have a list of how, you know, people base jumps and how they die so we can learn from it. And. I'm very surprised I wasn't on that list. No kidding. And I like looking back at how lucky I am is like, my name should have been there June 30. 30th, 2013, that should have been my name next to it. Yeah. So yeah, you had to change.

[01:17:19] Jamie Flynn: Like I had to change if I was staying on that same trajectory, it was just not going to work. Like 

[01:17:25] Travis Bader: that. Well, that's something, you know, I saw that video on, uh, some posted up on Facebook. I think the guy's name was Danik Loyen. Something like that. Uh, any, they're out on a cliff side, it looks like by a beach and one guy's parachute opens and the other guys doesn't and splat down, he goes.

[01:17:41] Travis Bader: Oh, Dominic Loyen. Dominic, that's it. Um, so, um, or the guys that'll do it without a parachute, he'll just land on the lake or in cardboard boxes or whatever. There's always. There's always something more you can do. It's like rock jumping off rocks into the water. Okay. It's scary, but I think I can do it.

[01:18:04] Travis Bader: Okay. It hurt. It was a bit of a height, but, uh, but I'm good. I'll do it again. I'll do it again. Oh, maybe I can go a bit higher. Maybe I can get a little higher. There's always. Where is that threshold? Where is that line? When, like, do you still, I'm asking a bunch of questions. Yeah. Do you still feel, um, that anticipation?

[01:18:23] Travis Bader: Like when I did my first jump off of just here in Chilliwack, I know Woodside, and I'm just looking over the edge and it's like, okay, here I go, I'm going to do it. And he, like you go through the process, but you feel that's probably where the most. Nerve comes in and then I'm in the air. It's just like, this is, this is cool.

[01:18:42] Travis Bader: This is really actually relaxing. Um, I should imagine hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of jumps that you've done. Do you start to lose that? And do you have to push it further to get that back or, 

[01:18:54] Jamie Flynn: or what? You know, people think that all the time you need to like push it to get to the next level and, and.

[01:19:01] Jamie Flynn: For me, I went through like a really dark area of base jumping, like I got hurt myself, but I also went through the following years of, we lost a lot of people in wingsuit base jumping, you know, so we went through what we would consider dark years of the sport, and a lot of people died, and our sport got a bad reputation of people dying all the time.

[01:19:19] Jamie Flynn: Um, which just isn't the case for, you know, what actually happens is, um, but yeah, do we push the limits? Like, yeah, people are going to push limits. Like people want to try and be the, you know, the next name, you know, the next famous name in our sport, you know, being the guy who flies close to things. Um, but that only leads one way.

[01:19:40] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. So for me, I like to, the way I like to do is try and show people what's possible. You know, like I did bust myself up, I am now older. I'm not a young 20 year old base jumper anymore. Um, and... I want to show people the beauty of the sport. Yeah. So now I'm interested in showing like really nice pictures or really nice videos that are like shows the beauty of the sport, rather than look how crazy I am.

[01:20:07] Jamie Flynn: Look how, look how close I am to the ground. Look at what I can do that no one else can do. You know, it's not the shock value anymore. Like I, you know, I, I love what I do. And if you took the cameras away, I'd still be doing it, but I also have. I love for sharing the things that I do and showing what is possible when you, when you focus on it.

[01:20:26] Jamie Flynn: Um, and maybe I'm a, you know, I'm definitely an old base jumper now, you know, like there was the old saying when, when I started, you know, there's, there's old base jumpers and there's bold base jumpers, but there's no old and bold base jumpers. Um, and that it just goes true now. And like, I, I definitely would consider myself an old base jumper and, and I look at the younger guys coming up and, and maybe you're like.

[01:20:49] Jamie Flynn: Hey, like you're, you're trying to reinvent the wheel, you're doing what I did and you're doing what someone else did before me, you know, and you, there's only one way it's going to end, you know, and you're teaching yourself and now you're teaching other people and it's just like, well, you're now surviving.

[01:21:09] Jamie Flynn: You're not actually really learning the skills and what you need to know. You need to, you need to take a step back and actually really learn the sport. Because if you can learn the sport, it can be safe, you know, like, or you can be as safe as possible. You know, there's still a big danger factor to base jumping, but sure.

[01:21:26] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. But if you, you know, it's a drill, you know, and if you can get every step of the drill, right. Yeah. Then if an accident happens, an accident. It's just an accident, but if it's, if you, if you're trying to tell me that it's an accident and I'm like, well, hold on a minute, like this is a huge Swiss cheese effect.

[01:21:43] Jamie Flynn: Like a, you didn't have anyone mentoring you be you're in the wrong gear. You either wrong weight for the gear you're in. Yeah. You have no idea what you're doing. You haven't skydived. Like, yeah. And now you're trying to tell me this is an accident. Come on, dude. 

[01:21:57] Travis Bader: Yeah. What do they call it? Unconscious, unconfidence, 

[01:22:01] Jamie Flynn: unaware.

[01:22:02] Jamie Flynn: The four levels, the four stages of, uh, 

[01:22:05] Travis Bader: learning. I'm in the, uh, conscious incompetence stage myself right now. I'm brutally aware of how much I don't know. When I first, uh, looked at getting into just a little bit that I'm, I've been doing, it was supposed to be doing a podcast over in Chamonix and, uh, the fellow who I was in a podcast with, who's it's been delayed.

[01:22:24] Travis Bader: He had to open up a couple of businesses over in the UK and. Um, he's into paragliding and he's got a speed wing as well. And I thought, well, this is great. I'll pick this thing up. And when I go over there, I could just like, see what he does and I'll follow beside him. And, and we can go out and do a, um, do a jump.

[01:22:43] Travis Bader: And I'm, I'm learning that no, maybe go into a place like that. It's going to take a little bit more practice for, before I get into it, but at Dunning Kruger. 

[01:22:54] Jamie Flynn: Exactly. I was just going to say the Dunning Kruger effect. That's a, it's very prevalent in a lot of, a lot of things, not just sport, but life in general, and people think that they.

[01:23:06] Jamie Flynn: They've done a little bit and now they think they know more than they know. And you know, and it was interesting now as I consider myself on the other side of that Dunning Kruger effect, like I'm pretty experienced in the base jump world. And sometimes I questioned my, my skill level and I'm like, well, I can do that.

[01:23:23] Jamie Flynn: Right. And you're like, and then everyone's like, well, of course you do it. What are you talking about? And you're like. Yeah, I'm just on the other side now, sort of not doubting yourself, but questioning you overthink 

[01:23:32] Travis Bader: it. Cause you know, all so many more 

[01:23:34] Jamie Flynn: variables. Yeah. And yeah, no, no, I'm definitely older.

[01:23:37] Jamie Flynn: And I look at those other variables and I definitely don't base jump as much as I used to, um, but I still love it. Like if I do one base jump a month now and buzz off that, you know, and whereas other people still need to do that for a day, 

[01:23:54] Travis Bader: push, push, push. Yeah. Um. You're talking about, uh, rule of threes.

[01:24:01] Jamie Flynn: Oh yeah. So yeah, I have a rule of threes when it comes to base jumping, like it, and it could be anything. Uh, if I don't wait, if I miss my alarm. That's one strike already on the morning of a bass jump. Um, if the weather's not what it says it's gonna be, yeah, that's another strike. And if I have a feeling, just a gut feeling when I'm on the exit point, I'll just put my ear away and I'll be like, Uh, yeah, I don't feel good.

[01:24:29] Jamie Flynn: Yeah, and people will look at you and be like, But it's perfect conditions. Why are you not jumping? And you're like, yeah, I don't know. I just, you know, not, not feeling it. And some people get a bit funny with you, but I'm pretty strict on my rule of threes now, because if I'd listened to my gut feeling in 2013, I might not have got hurt.

[01:24:48] Jamie Flynn: Because you're feeling it, weren't you? I was feeling it. I could have just said no, but I didn't. I just kept going. 

[01:24:52] Travis Bader: Cause the ego gets in the way. You don't want to look weak. You don't want to look like you're scared. 

[01:24:57] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And now I'm, I know I'm not scared. You know, I do things that are dangerous quite a lot of times.

[01:25:04] Jamie Flynn: And I now know that I'm not petrified of these things. So when I do say like, no, I'm not feeling it, it's because I'm not feeling it. And I have to go by these, these three rules and, and people might go, well, you just slept for your alarm. It doesn't matter. And it's just like, well, who knows? This might be a huge game we're in.

[01:25:24] Jamie Flynn: And this is how we have to roll it out. You're 

[01:25:27] Travis Bader: back to the sucking energy from other people when they, when they drop out, there is more to this thing that we have in life. I think it may be, it is a big game. You talk to Sean Taylor over and over again. We live in the matrix and he's got all these reasons why, 

[01:25:42] Jamie Flynn: but.

[01:25:43] Jamie Flynn: Hey, if people believe in religion, I don't see why we can't believe this is a simulation at times. 

[01:25:48] Travis Bader: Well, what do they say? The probability that we're living in a simulation, either a, far exceeds the likelihood that we don't, or at the best case scenario. It's a 50, 50. 

[01:26:02] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. Part of me still say, you know, like, Hey, Hey, I grew up religious and you know, part of me also listen to these arguments about the simulation and Hey, like I'll hang on to the, the religious thing.

[01:26:13] Jamie Flynn: Like when I was thinking I was going to die, I, I mean, I tried my best to say something to God, but before Julio came in, so my thoughts were there. Um, but also like, if, if, if we are in a simulation, like, Hey, what's wrong with just trying To keep our player interested, like I play video games and I like playing it.

[01:26:35] Jamie Flynn: And if I get bored of this game with the board of the player, well, I should turn it off. So just in case we are in a simulation, I'm trying to live an exciting life. So the, at least the guy playing me is like, you know what, you know, he might actually. It'd be worth seeing where this goes. Oh, I love that. 

[01:26:53] Travis Bader: I love that mentality.

[01:26:55] Travis Bader: Yeah. Awesome. We've talked about a fair bit. I know there's a lot more that we can talk on. Is there anything that we should touch on that we haven't? 

[01:27:08] Jamie Flynn: So there's a lot, I don't know what you want to talk about. You 

[01:27:11] Travis Bader: know, you, you've got a lot to share from your life experiences. You've got stuff to share on the mental health side, you've got stuff to share on, uh, dealing with adversity and, uh, overcoming fear, feeling the fear, but doing it anyways, and that's what courage is, right?

[01:27:26] Travis Bader: It's courage. Isn't the lack of fear. You can't have courage without fear. And from what it sounds like. You've had to display a fair bit of courage through your life in order to achieve these things that, that you have, it didn't just come because you had zero fear. 

[01:27:44] Jamie Flynn: No. And, and, and these things of like, especially like high adrenaline, high, you know, dopamine that you get through life is like, sometimes it then.

[01:27:54] Jamie Flynn: It takes it the complete opposite way, you know, and I have found myself like pretty shortly after getting hurt, like in a really, really bad place a, I didn't have the support of my unit and granted at that time, if I'd been like, Hey dude, like I'm having a bad time, they'd probably laugh at me, you know, cause our mentality on mental health was not what it is today.

[01:28:16] Jamie Flynn: Um, however, like. Even though they would have laughed at me, you know, I would never said it to them. Like, Hey, I'm, I'm feeling it, but I would, I would have been around them, but I wasn't around them at the time. So I was already out in the military. So I had no bond there. The bond I had with base jumpers just wasn't the same that I had with the, the paras.

[01:28:38] Jamie Flynn: We didn't have the whole peak on me, the, the arduous Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever the stuff we went through. So, you know, I didn't have these people around me anymore. Um, and. I couldn't, you know, life was very different because things hurt, you know, my bones hurt, you know, I got metal in me, I can't run as much as I was.

[01:28:57] Jamie Flynn: I just was never at the same level. So getting into like a really dark point in my life, like who knows what you want to call it today, depression, PTSD, whatever, whatever it was, it was, it all came crashing down and you know, life, yeah. I thought about, you know, things with Brian and things about like all the other guys, John and Mark and everyone else who died on tours that I was on and, uh, things that I'd seen and, and felt and other bass jumpers I've watched die while doing my hobby.

[01:29:29] Jamie Flynn: Like all these things were coming at me and I was like, well, what am I going to do now? Because I can't be the person I was. And, you know, I've gone from being top of the world to, to no one, you know, and, and the reality check was that. You're not special. None of us are really special. Yeah. You can say you're part of a special force, but you're not.

[01:29:51] Jamie Flynn: You're just a bunch of idiots that are rebels. Like a bunch of rebels, a bunch of degenerates who can just push through the pain. Yeah. Mentally, you can do stuff, but there's. It, things separate and I did get to a really bad point in my life and I didn't really know how to get on with it. So, you know, you did, I did what I only knew how and did day by day.

[01:30:18] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. And eventually someone, you know, was telling me about these, uh, psilocybin and microdosing. And I was just like, no, not interested. And they were like, no, dude, just, just hear it out. And it's a new thing. It's, it's gonna, it's going to help. And it will make you understand. I was outside of life. I don't know from the military is hardcore, no drugs.

[01:30:39] Jamie Flynn: And I grew up, I didn't take any drugs at all. And yeah, eventually I listened to this guy and I was like, okay, well, let's, let's see what happens then. And, uh, yeah, I got into. Try in this micro dosing and, and things started to like come together and try and like understand the things that I was doing in life and, you know, understand the ego that I, you know, that I was putting out the persona that I was, you know, portraying myself as, and I found that the ego and the persona and, uh, the arrogance and everything else that I was portraying to everyone wasn't that I was an asshole and I was, you know, an horrible person, but this was my defense.

[01:31:23] Jamie Flynn: I never really wanted you to know who I was, so my theory is I would much prefer that you think I'm an arse. Then you know who I am, because if you know who I am, you'll see the weak side of me. Yeah, and you'll see the soft side and you'll see that, you know, the care like the things that I, you know, I'm upset about like me losing like my mentor and life very an early age and you know that that really affected me and you know Being dumped by your mother that affected me like there's there's plenty of things in this life I get me being injured and not be able to run As much as I used to before, that affected me.

[01:31:59] Jamie Flynn: So it's like, all these things, and I never wanted you to see it. I still wanted you to see that, that tough guy that, uh, is a bass jumper, not scared of anything, and, you know, an ex military dude that just doesn't care, like, and, and this is where the microdosing actually helped, and it's sort of been like, you know what, people don't really care, they're, you know, you think they care.

[01:32:21] Jamie Flynn: But they don't, they're only caring about their own problems. Yeah, they're not really focused on you. Yeah, they might bitch and moan at you and be like, Ah, you're doing this. It's just mirroring their problems. So true. Yeah, it's not you. And that's what the whole psilocybin sort of thing is, uh, has helped me and it sort of re put me back on a path to try and like, get my life back in order and, and I think that's what, What helped and restarting again in Canada is, you know, like doing the, doing the micro dosing, leading up, moving to Canada, uh, and then restarting again over here has completely transformed, like the way things are like, I feel like the life I had before doing like military contract in the military, base jumping, whatever else.

[01:33:07] Jamie Flynn: It's a different life. Like I felt like. Moving to Canada, I've like drawn a line in the sand and it's just like, I'm starting again. 

[01:33:14] Travis Bader: Back to basics. Back to basics. You know, we, um, you've been on a collective, I believe, have you? Yeah, I have. Yeah. Okay. So, um, you know, Sean. Yep. Talking with Sean there and. I was in his house doing a podcast and, you know, similar mentality.

[01:33:33] Travis Bader: He's like, you know, I don't like medication. I don't, you know, if I got a headache, I don't like to take stuff. I don't do meds. Cause he was talking about PTSD and how he came to learn he had it and that whole story. And he says, oh yeah, but you know, I microdose. Well, hold on a second, like from, you know, similar upbringing and raising as yourself.

[01:33:55] Travis Bader: And he just said, you don't like drugs, but you microdose. Oh yeah. There's any lists off a couple other things that he's, uh, he's done in the past. Uh, and Sonny, you know, Sonny, right? Heroic heart, heroic hearts. Yeah. Uh, there seems to be a hell of a lot of Of science that's going behind it. A lot of, um, uh, a lot of research.

[01:34:18] Travis Bader: I know my wife went to the, uh, naturopath. I'm like, if you're going to the naturopath, can you ask some questions for me? Like, is there any like lion's mane? Like if I want to be able to remember things when I'm doing a podcast, if I want to be able to recall stuff, cause I always have difficulty with that.

[01:34:32] Travis Bader: It's just stuff in the, uh, uh, naturopath site, she's a doctor and she says, well. You know, there's, there's limited research in that, but, uh, unless he's looking at micro dosing, there's a lot of research over there. So it's interesting that you bring that 

[01:34:46] Jamie Flynn: up. Well, it's, it's funny. I read somewhere the other day that there's actually been more studies in micro dosing and how much, how the benefits of micro dosing psilocybin has been there ever was for legalizing cannabis in Canada.

[01:34:58] Jamie Flynn: Really? 

[01:34:59] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[01:35:00] Jamie Flynn: Interesting. Yeah. We're still trying to legalize psilocybin and you know, like. And I, that, that struggles with me because I, I believe in like, and I'm not just saying it because it's like, oh, it's a drug that helps you understand like microdosing doesn't actually do anything if you take it and you're like, well, it's not doing anything.

[01:35:20] Jamie Flynn: Well, of course it's not doing it. You have to do it. Like you have to still like your brain, just like the only way I describe it to like layman terms is parts of my brain have shut off. Like, to protect myself and try and get off. So I, I feel like in my brain that there's a door and I've shut that door because I don't want the bad stuff to come through that door.

[01:35:40] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. Psilocybin sort of, especially the micro dosing where you don't actually feel, you don't trip, you don't nothing, you don't, you have no feelings of if you did any sort of drug like you would if you smoking weed or anything like that. So, you know, but I feel like that door gets cracked. It all gets cracked open and a few things come out and in your brain, you can sort of work out those little things and over time, yeah, you just take those things out and you're like, oh yeah, no, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[01:36:08] Jamie Flynn: I can use that to become a better person, you know, like your, your mother, what, you know, she dumped you on the side of the highway, but it's not like, it's not your fault, but what can you do? Like it might not even be her fault. You know, like she had issues herself. Yeah, clearly, like no normal person does that.

[01:36:29] Jamie Flynn: So there must be issues. Do I forgive her? Like, no. But, I can understand that something else was going on. Yeah, and I have a little bit of compassion for her. Um, whatever she had to go, go through, but it should never have occurred to, it should never have got to this point, but I need to understand that now I, you know, I can't deal with her, but I can deal with my own feelings towards that situation.

[01:36:53] Jamie Flynn: And being dumped there is like, well, what does that mean to me now? And now I can like look back and be like, well, can strengthen that today. And then I can take the next thing out. Look through the next part of my life and try and build these blocks into building a better me. And it's just like It only how it's only gonna work if you actually put time and effort into trying to understand your past and trying to Be a better person But if you're not into that then it's gonna be hard like you're just taking microdosing it and you're gonna feel better and you're gonna Have a better life, but you also need to like look back at your problems and try and put it all 

[01:37:30] Travis Bader: together How I've heard it referred to is just similar to what you've said there, or it's like fresh snowfall, like all these tracks down the mountain and there's a fresh snowfall and it covers it over and you can start taking whatever track you want.

[01:37:43] Travis Bader: You can make, you don't have to be confined to the ruts, but, um, essentially it helps you get to a place where you no longer need to microdose. So you don't all, you don't, it's a non dependent sort of thing. 

[01:37:56] Jamie Flynn: Yeah. I don't like nowadays I don't microdose. Right. Yeah, like it's been back then it was quite regular and I read up on like how much too much like what's what am I doing, you know, and I looked into it and I was very like stuck to micro dosing to try and keep going.

[01:38:16] Jamie Flynn: And then eventually when I was like, well, do I need this anymore? You know, so I, you know, Came off it. Then I was like, well, I think I need, it's just like, it was back and forth for a few years. And then eventually, you know, it got bad to like, I don't think I need this anymore. I don't need, you know, I I'm good enough to look back on my own past now and go, that's, I'm doing this wrong.

[01:38:37] Jamie Flynn: Or even the things that I'm doing presently, I do things presently and I'm like. Whoa, fuck. I should not have said that. I should not have done that. And I should have known better. And then I go back and I like fit there. And maybe now that's why I use Instagram rather than like to the side, but I go back and I'm like, what should I do?

[01:38:59] Jamie Flynn: Okay. And if I write it down, And find a really cool picture to go with it. That's how my Instagram gets done these days. Nowadays. It's like, it's what I'm thinking on Instagram is like, how do I make myself better from the thing, the dumb things I'm doing during my day to day, which is essentially what the microdosing has done.

[01:39:19] Travis Bader: That's amazing. Jamie, maybe we should wrap it here. And, uh, you know, I, I do have a lot more questions that I'd like to ask and go through, but, uh, I think it's lunchtime. I'll buy you lunch. Let's do it. . Thanks very much for being on this Silver Corp podcast. Thank 

[01:39:36] Jamie Flynn: you for having me. This is being awesome.