Silvercore Podcast 136 Michael Hunter Antler

https://www.antler.co/

https://www.instagram.com/thehunterchef/

https://www.instagram.com/antlerkitchenbar/

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TRANSCRIPTS:

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: Back in 2022, I learned about a company in Canada called ATI Armament Technologies. They make the Rolls Royce of rifle scopes, absolute top notch, highest quality rifle scopes. I was intrigued. I called them up. Flew on over to Nova Scotia and I met with Trevor public over and we recorded Silvercore podcast, episode 90.

[00:00:32] Travis Bader: When I first landed in Nova Scotia, we went over to dinner. It was me, Trevor, David, and being in Nova Scotia, I had to order lobster. When I was in the factory for ATI, the owner, Andy, who is the consummate entrepreneur, started off by. Building and accurizing Remington 700 actions and rifles for the Halifax police department and the Boston police department Comes over he introduces himself Really affable individual takes Trevor aside.

[00:01:04] Travis Bader: They have a quick chat and he comes on back. I said, is everything okay? Says oh, yeah, you know Andy was just saying That lobster that you ate last night at that restaurant, that's not lobster. You have to get Travis back. Come on back here. I want to show him what real lobster is. Fast forward a year, I'm in Nuremberg in Germany.

[00:01:26] Travis Bader: IWA, it's a show. Who do I run into? But Trevor and David again, and end up at a restaurant with Andreas. He's, uh, owns a company called Swiss locks and they're a distributor for Desert Tech and ATI and, and a few other firearms related brands. And the entire restaurant has been booked out, had an amazing evening.

[00:01:47] Travis Bader: Some interesting stories to share off of that one, possibly in the future. And again, Trevor says, you gotta come over. Andy is serious. Come on by, we're gonna have a lobster feast. Well, I decided to take him up on it. My wife and I flew over to Nova Scotia. Caught the red eye. Didn't get any sleep through the night.

[00:02:06] Travis Bader: Trevor picks us up in the morning, tours us around. We pick up his wife. Whole day checking out the sights. Ended up at the Bicycle Thief restaurant on the coast there. Great restaurant. And who happens to also be there but Andreas from Swiss Locks. Small world. Kind of funny how it all works out. Ended up ordering some oysters, that tray turned into another tray, which turned into another tray, until finally Andreas and his friend had to take off to the airport to grab a plane back home to Switzerland.

[00:02:36] Travis Bader: Even though it had been well over 24 hours and I hadn't slept, I barely noticed. The company was too great, having too good of a time. The next day, take off up to Andy's cottage, small mouth bass fishing, a lobster feast that you wouldn't believe the best lobster I've ever had in my life. This was a stellar chance to spend some time with some extraordinary people, the kind that you don't often get to meet.

[00:03:02] Travis Bader: ATI left me with a cutting edge sense of innovation, entrepreneurial spirit, and the tight knit sense of family that they've nurtured. From Nova Scotia, I flew over to Toronto. This is where I got to go check out Antler Restaurant. I met up with Harrison from Marathon Watches. We had an amazing meal, duck heart yakitori, bison ribeye, maple brine boar, seared foie gras, capped off with Antler's very own cedar gin cocktails.

[00:03:31] Travis Bader: Amazing evening, got a good rest, met with Michael Hunter the next day, and we recorded this podcast. I do say this in the podcast, but it does bear repeating here that I'm extremely grateful for my friend, Shani from Stoger, for helping facilitate and set up the meeting with Michael so that we could actually record this podcast for you guys.

[00:03:54] Travis Bader: Now, why do I bring all of these things up? Well, for a very specific reason. If you're unable to get yourself to Toronto to visit the world famous Antler Restaurant, well, we're giving away the Hunter Chef Cookbook. Hunt, fish, and forage in over 100 recipes. Stoger, well, if you're a Silvercore Club member, you'll already know, or should already know, you get discounts at Stoger.

[00:04:21] Travis Bader: Here we've got a beautiful Benelli range bag. Perfect at the range. Perfect in the blind. This one is getting given away. I can't talk about ATI without bringing up the fact that, well, here we go. Speed, accuracy, integrity. The SAI optic here. 1 6x24mm. This guy is also getting given away. And yes, I've mentioned Harrison from marathon watches.

[00:04:46] Travis Bader: They've been supplying allied forces with military grade, Swiss engineered watches. It's 1941. We've got the red Arctic maple GSAR watch with a stainless seal strap that's also being given away. Cap it all off. We've got a Silvercore swag package, but you're going to want to make sure that you subscribe to the Silvercore podcast, that you follow on social media so you can see how you can win these items that I've just talked about for free.

[00:05:14] Travis Bader: If you're not a member of the Silvercore club, I highly recommend you consider checking that out. Without further ado, let's get on with the podcast. If you're a hunter, a foodie, a game eat connoisseur, you'll have undoubtedly heard of today's guest. He shot to meteoric fame, or perhaps infamy, when he responded to protesting vegans outside his immensely popular Antler restaurant by butchering a deer leg in front of them.

[00:05:41] Travis Bader: Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Michael Hunter. Right on, man. Thanks for having me. Well, this is great. Um, food. Amazing. Ate here last night, had, uh, Harrison from, uh, Marathon Watches. He and I had a meeting here, actually sat in that table right over there in the corner. Oh my God. It was so good. Right on.

[00:05:59] Travis Bader: Yeah. Um, anybody who hasn't been to this restaurant, I'd a hundred percent recommend coming here. It, you know, I was expecting it to be good. I wasn't expecting it to be that good. It was amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you. I think we should start out. By thanking Shani, Shani from Stoger who put us in touch here.

[00:06:14] Travis Bader: Stoger, Canada. Thank you. Holy crow. Thanks, Shani. That's amazing. Uh, you've been working with Stoger for 

[00:06:20] Michael Hunter: a while now, haven't you? I have. So I, I rep, um, fronky shotguns and rifles. Um, It's funny how, uh, um, a Franchi, I think it was an Intensity, now they're called Affinity, uh, was my first semi auto shotgun. I, you know, I graduated from a pump and I wanted to, you know, shoot, shoot more, shoot more geese and ducks, uh, you know, and, and, uh, you know, graduated to a semi auto and I just, I fell in love with it.

[00:06:46] Michael Hunter: And I think I was 25 and, um, I still have it. To this day, it still cycles in minus 30 when I'm goose hunting in a dry field, uh, where some of my buddies are, you know, jamming and not cycling proper properly. Um, and, uh, I actually write wild game recipes for the brand. They've got a website called the fronky food academy.

[00:07:03] Michael Hunter: That's right. And that's sort of how that connection works. 

[00:07:06] Travis Bader: Yeah. My, uh, My wife, actually, she's a chef. She wrote something for Franchi there as well, a while ago. And I think it was, uh, it was a bear recipe, but they had to change it a little bit because I guess it's just not as politically correct to be bear.

[00:07:19] Travis Bader: So, 

[00:07:21] Michael Hunter: well, I think in Italy they can't, there's really nowhere to hunt bear. Um, so yeah, for me, I try, I try to just work with stuff that's. That's available to everyone in Europe because it's not, it's not just for North America, it's for Europe as well. So, um, yeah, well, while boar is very popular, um, you know, everything, you know, deer, the goats, some of the sheep, um, you know, small game, all that stuff is, is, uh, prevalent over there that I don't, they don't have the means to hunt bear.

[00:07:49] Michael Hunter: I don't think, yeah, I think they changed it to a boar 

[00:07:51] Travis Bader: recipe, 

[00:07:51] Michael Hunter: but yeah, but it worked too. It worked either way. Yeah. I think they can go to, The closest they can go, I think it was like Siberia or something to shoot a bear. We're somewhere in Russia. Is that what it is? Yeah. There's nowhere really kind of close to home for them, but.

[00:08:03] Travis Bader: So, um, okay. First thing, the, the. First point that I brought up in the intro here. Congratulations. That's amazing. By the way, that was, uh, probably a point of frustration for you, but holy crow, what, what a pivot point. What do they call it? An inflection point. Yeah. 

[00:08:20] Michael Hunter: Um, yeah, well, you, you know, you mentioned frustration.

[00:08:23] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, I was probably more on the enraged side. Um, And that was the product of me actually having to be here that night. You know, they were coming once a week, they had been coming for three months and I would leave cause I knew that I was going to do something, uh, incredibly stupid that was either going to get me, you know, arrested or charged or just, you know, canceled.

[00:08:46] Michael Hunter: Um, and you know, thankfully I did something that, uh, you know, was the exact opposite of that. Uh, but it was, that was just luck I think, cause I was really, really upset. You know, they were taken. Photos of my kids that I, you know, I had a public Facebook account. Oh, I didn't know that part. You know, my stuff was public.

[00:09:03] Michael Hunter: So they, at that time anyway, so they had, you know, taken all, you know, family photos and put them online on their vegan websites. So there was death threats and you know, all kinds of stuff going around, um, that made, made me really upset. So, um, and I think eventually it led to some people actually getting charged, which, you Shut down the protests, but, you know, they came once a week for 11 months to this restaurant, 

[00:09:27] Travis Bader: 11 months, 

[00:09:29] Michael Hunter: all because 

[00:09:30] Travis Bader: you 

[00:09:30] Michael Hunter: had what a sign that said, venison is the new kid.

[00:09:35] Travis Bader: And that's that one person 

[00:09:36] Michael Hunter: off. And I, I don't even remember the exact year. It might've been 2017, 2018 when this all happened. Um, but you know, kale salads were on like every menu across the city. So it was just, you know, and I, I didn't even come up with it. One of our servers came up with it as sort of like a fun little Play on our chalkboard sign.

[00:09:54] Michael Hunter: Like, you know, you ate here last night. We're 45 seats. We're not a big, huge corporate place where I have one business partner. We're a little family, you know, restaurant. Um, and it was just like a, a laugh, you know, and, and, uh, a vegan cyclist rode her bike by and took a picture. Grave offense to it. And, uh, decided they were going to try and shut us down.

[00:10:15] Michael Hunter: And that was literally in their messaging, you know, we're going to shut this restaurant down because they serve meat. And it was just bizarre. Despite the fact there's a butcher shop, like cross the road, you know, accidentally called them out in an interview. I said, there's a butcher shop across the street.

[00:10:31] Michael Hunter: They had to respond to that. Unfortunately, I, you know, I apologize. I didn't mean to, you know, try and get them canceled or something. Right. But they literally have half. Sides of beef hanging in their window. And it's like, why are you, and they said, Oh, we're promoting the humane meat myth that, you know, raising animals and, uh, um, you know, outdoor environment that are treated properly is a myth that, uh, you know, cause at the end of the day, they don't want to die and, you know, it's, it's.

[00:10:58] Michael Hunter: The funny thing was that we actually had, you know, two vegan items on the menu. Like they didn't do their research about us at all. Um, like, cause we treat this like it's our home and everyone's welcome in our home and the guests are like, you know, they're guests in our home. And, um, you know, if you're halal or kosher or vegan, whatever it is, you know, we, we do our best to accommodate.

[00:11:18] Michael Hunter: And, um, you know, if someone called us and they, they wanted something halal, uh, you know, a lot of the game farms we use, they use halal, Like they use halal or kind of kosher practices. Not that there's a rabbi blessing it, but, um, you know, some of the stuff is actually available, halal or kosher. So it's, um, it was kind of funny that they chose us because we welcome everyone.

[00:11:38] Michael Hunter: And it, um, uh, yeah, so that's, that's kind of what happened after my extreme frustration. They chose the wrong person to pick a fight with, apparently. Yeah, you know, my mom, uh, I guess raised me not to put up with other people's, uh, uh, B. S., uh, so to speak, so. Did you think that, that one little act would have such a consequence?

[00:11:59] Michael Hunter: No. God, no. We were meeting with some sort of restaurant, uh, potential partners for growth and, uh, Um, we were all having dinner together while this was blowing up on our phones and we're like, Oh my God, I hope they don't see this. What is happening? Um, because initially it was negative. Um, I think it happened on a Thursday.

[00:12:18] Michael Hunter: We were having this dinner on a Friday and it was like on the Apple news when you kind of look at your phone, uh, it's just like on the, on the home screen. And we were like, Oh, um, And we were getting absolutely pounded with like one star Facebook and Google reviews from people, you know, from all over the world that have never been here, that we're just vegan, you know, trying to cancel us.

[00:12:39] Michael Hunter: Um, so, you know, the initial virality of the whole thing was negative. And, uh, you know, I think it wasn't until Monday that a local, you know, online blog magazine got ahold of it. Um, and they put it out there, you know, then the mainstream media got it and it flipped, you know, instantly to. Positive for us.

[00:12:58] Michael Hunter: People were supporting us. Um, people loved, you know, my reaction to it, but you know, the initial three, four days, you know, I thought, I thought we were screwed. I thought her restaurant was canceled. So I feel like we're 

[00:13:11] Travis Bader: moving past cancel 

[00:13:13] Michael Hunter: culture. I don't know what you're feeling is. I really hope so. 

[00:13:16] Travis Bader: Yeah.

[00:13:17] Travis Bader: I just get the sense that people are starting to wake up and say like, come on. Yeah. 

[00:13:22] Michael Hunter: Um, You know, especially because what I, you know, I did was within, you know, well within my rights, it was sort of my, you know, protest back and, um, you know, someone said to me once when I was worried about it at the time, you know, the world's run by meat eaters.

[00:13:36] Michael Hunter: This is not, this is not bad, right? 

[00:13:39] Travis Bader: Did you go front or you just in the window Here? 

[00:13:41] Michael Hunter: In the window? Yeah. I didn't, I I knew that if I went outside, you know, it, it would be bad. It would be very bad man. With a knife? Yeah. Well I, one of the guys that was like, you know, putting the stuff on my kids online was standing on the sidewalk and I knew that if I got within face to face of this man, it was gonna be bad.

[00:13:55] Michael Hunter: So I stayed inside. So you ended up on Rogan's podcast 'cause of this? Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I knew who Joe Rogan was, you know, this was, this was when he was still in LA. Um, I, you know, I, I didn't think I even had Spotify or these podcast apps on my phone at that point. Like I, I didn't even know he had a podcast, which was the funny thing.

[00:14:16] Michael Hunter: Um, like he's a guy from news radio. Yeah. Well, news radio, the UFC, you know, fear factor, like I knew who he was. Um, but I didn't know, you know, I think it was our podcast. The one I was on was 1105, I think. So he'd done a thousand and 100 podcasts already. Like, you know, he wasn't like a new guy, you know, and I just, I, I hadn't, I'd never listened to his podcast.

[00:14:39] Michael Hunter: So I didn't, I didn't know, you know, how big he was. Um, but yeah, you know, that was, that was, you know, incredible experience. He's a, he's a great guy, uh, you know, a great voice for the hunting community. And, um, It was just, you know, it was awesome to have someone like that sort of, you know, in our corner kind of having our back a little bit, you know, and it, uh, it was amazing.

[00:14:58] Michael Hunter: What was that experience like? It was really cool. You know, my dad, uh, uh, lived in Los Angeles, south of Los Angeles for about 30 years. So it was really great. I got to go visit my dad and, um, you know, went to the studio and hung out with him for an afternoon and, um, Yeah, it was a, it was a, you know, wonderful experience again, you know, he's, uh, he's really great at what he does.

[00:15:19] Michael Hunter: Um, and I think that was probably the first podcast I'd ever done. Yeah, 

[00:15:24] Travis Bader: man, that guy, I like, I don't really listen to too many podcasts. In fact, prior to starting my own podcast, I was on one and I saw one live and, uh, the live one was a meat eater podcast. And at that time I'd never even heard of meat eater and my wife got me this present of a go get to see this live, go down to Seattle and cool.

[00:15:43] Travis Bader: Well, I was like, I don't know who this meat eater company is. I don't know who this Steve Rinella guy is. And I'd almost in a podcast, like, yeah, what is this? Thank you. But, um, but it was pretty cool. It was neat to get to meet the guys and girls there. And she became friends with a few of them. Um, was asked to be on a podcast.

[00:16:03] Travis Bader: Guy comes down, crack a couple of beers, hooks in his recorder. I Well, this is kind of fun, actually. You just get to sit here and talk. This is amazing. So yeah, I'm kind of like you. I, I. I haven't actually heard too many of Rogan's podcasts, but I did listen to the one that you were on. Cause of course I wanted to hear what you had to say.

[00:16:20] Travis Bader: And I think for the first, like the majority of it, it was basically Joe talking and I'm like, did this guy, like, I don't know, did this guy just like read an encyclopedia before sitting down with you? He's pulling out dates and figures and facts about hunting and it was. 

[00:16:37] Michael Hunter: He's extremely intelligent. Um, you know, he's got, I love the fact that he's got experts from all different fields, you know, all walks of life, um, you know, all political spectrums, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's really neat listening to someone that, you know, doesn't have an agenda of his own, you know, kind of going forth.

[00:16:55] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, the, the funny thing with, with the vegan scenario, it just happened to kind of, he was, yeah. He had done a lot of vegan bits on his new special. So it was kind of, you know, just at that time when, uh, you know, the vegan cat thing was blowing up on the internet and going viral. And I guess he, he had a lot of vegan stuff material worked into his, uh, his show that he was, he was currently either working on or I can't remember if he was already touring with it or not, but, um, there was a big, Big kind of vegan bit in his, uh, in his act.

[00:17:25] Michael Hunter: So it, I kinda, I think it just fit perfectly into, you know, what he was kind of thinking about and talking about and, you know, making jokes about anyway. So, so what happened after that podcast? Um, you know, I, he found us because it had already gone viral. Like every single news outlet in Canada and the United States.

[00:17:46] Michael Hunter: Uh, had, had done a piece on it. You know, we did, we didn't know what we were doing. Um, so we hired, we, we spoke to a person in PR, um, that had actually specialized working for the government in crisis. PR had just happened to be a friend of mine. So she kind of gave us some coaching. Um, we did one interview with a, you know, big national magnet, the global mail, um, here.

[00:18:09] Michael Hunter: And she's like, that's it. Don't give any more interviews. That's the interview. That's the statement. Uh, every other.

[00:18:20] Michael Hunter: What happens is when you talk to, you know, 10 different, you know, people or magazine outlets, whatever it is, you know, it's like telephone tag. Your story will change a little bit. They get more views from you. They get so not by views. I mean like your opinions and you don't want to like, I mean, you don't want to You know, I wanted to be respectful.

[00:18:37] Michael Hunter: I wanted to be educated. I, you know, so I, I just, we kept it at one statement and it blew up like, you know, people magazine, the Washington posts, uh, you know, Fox news, like it would just, it blew up. So, you know, it was already viral. Um, the real crazy part is that it was all over the world. People were like, I've because of cooking and traveling for events and stuff, I've worked all over the world.

[00:19:00] Michael Hunter: Um, Friends were sending me articles from Russia, England, France, uh, Italy, Singapore, uh, Australia, New Zealand, Africa, like, everywhere. It was in absolutely insane. And you know, you see these things go viral, but when it happens to you, it's very different. . Um, you know, um, you know, it's, it's a blessing that it was a positive thing.

[00:19:24] Michael Hunter: Um, but yeah, when, when people blow up and go viral, like, uh, you know, I really feel for them sometimes. 'cause it's not something that you plan for. It's not necessarily something that you want. Um, you know, and I. I want to be recognized for our positive qualities at the restaurant and whatever. And I'm glad that it had a positive spin, but you know, I'm forever going to be the guy that butchered a deer in front of vegans in the window, you know?

[00:19:46] Michael Hunter: And, um, uh, yeah, so I don't, you know, there's no ill will towards vegans. They're still welcome at the restaurant. We still, you know, it's, um, but yeah, it's, uh, it was, it was a crazy experience, but. You know, being on the Rogan podcast, again, it just sort of aided to that virality and we get so many, um, uh, travelers from the States and all over the world that, Oh, we heard you on Rogan.

[00:20:11] Michael Hunter: We came for dinner. So you're still getting that. Yeah. Yeah. It's at the time people were like driving from the States. So someone drove from Washington. Someone drove, I forget where people drove here. Cause I heard us on Rogan. It was bizarre. Yeah. Wow. Really, really cool. Well, it's good for business. It was amazing for business.

[00:20:26] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, our, our business doubled overnight at the time, which, uh, created its own set of challenges. You know, we had to hire new staff. The staff that were here got extremely burnt out and tired and stressed. Um, Uh, our suppliers, like we buy from little family farms and small suppliers. So, you know, they couldn't necessarily keep up with the demand.

[00:20:47] Michael Hunter: Um, so yeah, it had a whole slew of challenges. We had to hire security, um, on the nights that they were here, we had to work with the police to make sure that, you know, everyone was keeping the peace, you know, our supporters and the vegan supporters, because they were clashing, there were hundreds of people on the street at times, so they were clashing.

[00:21:03] Michael Hunter: It was, um, yeah, it was tough. It's not something that you, uh. You plan for, it's not something you, uh, understand, um, you know, as a business owner, you don't even know how to manage it at the time. So, and it has that calmed down 

[00:21:18] Travis Bader: a bit now. 

[00:21:18] Michael Hunter: Totally. Yeah. It's, that's, it's like, 

[00:21:22] Travis Bader: So what do you have to do next to get the, uh, the line up at the door, get the, uh, people driving from 

[00:21:26] Michael Hunter: Washington.

[00:21:26] Michael Hunter: Yeah. You know, I think because after that COVID happened and so all travel shut down, business travel, you know, has extremely slowed down interest rates, the economy. Um, you know, there's new challenges right now to face. Um, but you know, because of all that, you know, we are so well known and, um, you know, it definitely, definitely, it was a blessing in disguise.

[00:21:46] Michael Hunter: How long was your business around before COVID hit? Um, we had been here for, I think, two or three years and you're able to survive COVID. We were able to survive COVID. Yeah. And we had a, we had a really great community around us that were supportive. We, you know, we were doing takeout stuff, meal kits, uh, online cooking stuff with brands.

[00:22:06] Michael Hunter: You know, we did a dinner series with Amex that was all online and we sent Like recipe kits to people's homes and did like a cooking class. And, um, yeah, we had a really, really great community in the city that supported us. So 

[00:22:18] Travis Bader: I'm from BC and in BC, we have off sales. I've had that for quite some time, uh, where people can come in, they can buy alcohol from a restaurant, pub, whatever.

[00:22:27] Travis Bader: And then, yeah. Go home with it. But I understand here, it's only been around for four years because of COVID. Okay. It was because of COVID and nothing to do with any of your input or 

[00:22:37] Michael Hunter: what? No, not at all. Like we, that was one of the, they changed that law almost immediately so that restaurants could sell, you know, basically dead stock that, you know, if you had, you had bottles of beer, you could sell it.

[00:22:48] Michael Hunter: If you had wine unopened from your cellar, you could sell it. Um, so they, they actually changed that law to help kind of support us. Um, Um, so yeah, that was one of the ways that, you know, we stayed in business. Yeah. I 

[00:22:59] Travis Bader: read a rumor somewhere that, uh, you may have had a bit of a hand in, uh, complaining. No, well, yeah, we, 

[00:23:05] Michael Hunter: I actually got, I took the blame for it, but my business partner actually wrote and sent the letter.

[00:23:10] Michael Hunter: Um, they, they kept toying, well, I don't know if toying with us is the right word, but, um, You know, Ontario was one of the worst provinces to be in during COVID. They shut us down for the longest, uh, and they kept trying to reopen and then they'd, they'd open and then it would get so bad, you know, it would get out of control.

[00:23:27] Michael Hunter: So they'd shut us down and it was this like open, close, open, close. And they had said that we could open, it was springtime. You know, we could open our patios or whatever it was. Um, so we ordered in all this food, all this beer. I think we opened, you know, had a keg tapped and then after the weekend, they shut us down or it was like, you know, they opened for two days and then shut us down.

[00:23:45] Michael Hunter: So my business partner wrote a strongly worded email, uh, or letter to the Ford government. And then he also sent it to, uh, forget which newspaper, but so the newspaper published it. And basically my business partner sent the government, um, An invoice for our keg or something. It was like trivial, trivial.

[00:24:03] Michael Hunter: Right. But it was, uh, you know, there was some sort of comic relief behind it, but, um, so that was published and, uh, but yeah, that didn't have anything to do with the, the law is changing, but that was just a, Hey, you know, you told us we could open, you know, the stuff has a shelf life, you know, now we can't sell it, we're closed for another month.

[00:24:20] Michael Hunter: Um, did you get paid back? 

[00:24:21] Travis Bader: No, 

[00:24:22] Michael Hunter: they ignored our email letter, whatever it was, but, uh, yeah, that was, That was another thing that kind of got us some publicity. Um, but we did, we did some other stuff, you know, we were, we set up a go fund me for, um, healthcare workers. We did a, we did, um, some meals for, uh, nurses and doctors and things like that, that we took to the hospital and delivered.

[00:24:42] Michael Hunter: Um, and it was again, just to get rid of our stock. Like we had fridges full of food that, you know, we didn't want to go to waste. Um, you know, food banks. Um, you know, can only take certain things or so much, they don't take prepared food. So, um, yeah, it was a really great way to, um, you know, sort of raise money to pay for the food, but also, um, you know, feed the frontline workers that were, uh, you know, working so hard.

[00:25:04] Travis Bader: Now you work with a number of different companies right now, don't you? I think Mossy Oak is one of them. On the hunting 

[00:25:09] Michael Hunter: side. Yeah. So I, you know, My love of food and, and wild food, um, you know, inspired me to write a cookbook. You know, I think it started 15 years ago. Um, I had, uh, I was working at an Italian restaurant called Scarpetta at the time.

[00:25:27] Michael Hunter: Um, the head chef there was a big, famous chef from the States and he had just opened a restaurant in Toronto and he handed me his cookbook and, um, you know, to me, You know, Scott was just a regular guy, you know, and I kind of was like, if this guy can write a cookbook, I can write a cookbook. And, um, you know, I, I grew up, um, fox hunting with hounds, but it wasn't really for food and I didn't start hunting for food until I was 18.

[00:25:51] Michael Hunter: Um, but I, you know, the more time I spend outside, the less time I want to spend in the kitchen at work. And, um, I was just obsessed with, you know, foraging and cooking. I was even gardening and, and, uh, I was obsessed with hunting and, um, it was new for me. So all my friends and family, you know, it was new for them.

[00:26:08] Michael Hunter: They wanted me to either take them or teach them or show them what, you know, basically what I was learning. And I just got this idea, like, I want to write a book about what I'm doing because there's so many people interested in it. So. That's sort of how the book came to be. 

[00:26:20] Travis Bader: How has the book been doing for you?

[00:26:22] Michael Hunter: Book's great. You know, it's, um, it was, it launched during COVID, um, but it was, it was a great time to have a product that was shelf stable that we could sell to, you know, support ourselves, um, and, you know, really well received, you know, by the, by the public, um, you know, I think it's approachable, um, You know, to the home cook as well as, you know, professional chefs.

[00:26:43] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, the recipes aren't, you know, too challenging or difficult. And, you know, a lot of the stuff, uh, there's a little foraging guides that some of the stuff, mushrooms and whatever you can find in the city, which is funny. Um, um, but yeah, so that's, I think it's, uh, you know, approachable for, you know, people that are, you know, want to learn about hunting and foraging and fishing.

[00:27:01] Michael Hunter: Um, but it also appeals to, you know, uh, home cooks and chefs. It's amazing 

[00:27:07] Travis Bader: what you can find 

[00:27:07] Michael Hunter: growing 

[00:27:08] Travis Bader: out of the sidewalk that you can actually eat. Yeah, it's bizarre, right? I'd be careful in the city, but Perhaps, yeah. Yeah, I did a little hike around here for a few miles this morning and just kind of establishing a baseline and, uh, looking at the little gardens that people have, impromptu gardens, people in the little back alleys have set up and, uh, it's pretty cool.

[00:27:26] Michael Hunter: Yeah, it's neat. You know, there, there's lots of, uh, Of city parks where there'll be huge mushrooms growing on trees that are edible and, um, you know, wild herbs growing down by the riverbanks and stuff. It's, uh, it's pretty neat. It's fun to, uh, you know, explore and, and see what's around that you can eat. So 

[00:27:43] Travis Bader: How do you find navigating the, the social media side of things, the marketing side?

[00:27:49] Travis Bader: Cause you're working with hunting companies, you're working with firearms companies and, and Meta, which owns Instagram and Facebook, uh, their AI bots and their, everyone else. But on top of that, you're going to have all these eyes on you. The, yeah. Perhaps other vegans who are constantly reporting your posts.

[00:28:06] Michael Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely feeling that right now. You know, it never was an issue for me because I found that it's, you know, when you talk to people about hunting from the food side of it, um, it really piques their interest when they're not, when they're non hunters, um, you know, people that don't hunt and aren't firearm shooters, um, You know, they just think, Oh, we just want to kill stuff and put the head on the wall.

[00:28:28] Michael Hunter: And it's, you know, for many hunters, it's so far from the truth. So I, you know, I didn't have any issues with it. Um, you know, I think now that Meta is using AI technology to flag posts, I'm going through the ringer, um, you know, Turkey calls optics, you know, things are getting flagged as dangerous weapons.

[00:28:46] Michael Hunter: And it's like, these are legal tools that I'm using, uh, you know, like sports shooting and clay shooting and all these things are Olympic sports. Um, you know, why am I being flagged for this? But, you know, it's at the end of the day, it's their private company, they can do what they want. And, you know, we all sign up and, you know, I agree to the terms and conditions.

[00:29:04] Michael Hunter: So, you know, it's, it's frustrating at the end of the day, but. Um, you know, there's not, there's not much we can do about it. And I'm just, I'm exploring sort of other platforms and, and trying to focus on the cooking. 

[00:29:16] Travis Bader: Yeah, I guess that's where the question is kind of going. Like for me, if I'm taking a picture, it's got a firearm in it.

[00:29:21] Travis Bader: I'm now very conscious about, maybe it's just a part of the receiver, right? And you can kind of see a bit of the trigger and people who know can put it together, but hopefully AI isn't. No, 

[00:29:29] Michael Hunter: mine's been flagged. I had a turkey call and it's the same thing, the receiver of a shotgun and it's got flagged.

[00:29:35] Michael Hunter: Really? I had a shotgun shell in a, in an open receiver, uh, that got flagged. Like, it's just. 

[00:29:41] Travis Bader: Just crazy. So 

[00:29:43] Michael Hunter: I've tried appealing it and it's not, I've appealed it and overcame some stuff before, but this one's seeming to, it's sticking. So would you just pull it down then? I've just left it up. It just, you know, like says my accounts not being shown to non followers.

[00:29:56] Michael Hunter: Like it's okay. Like, They're not going to, they're not threatening to take my account down. So we'll see, but yeah, it's frustrating, you know, especially when I'm, I'm trying to grow a business and, uh, I'm passionate about, you know, sharing wild food and recipes with people. It's, it's, uh, you know, it's frustrating, but what other avenues are you looking at, um, I might start focusing more on kind of YouTube and just the cooking side of things.

[00:30:20] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, I haven't really monetized my YouTube. I don't, uh, I haven't really focused on putting content on there. So, um, I might start, yeah, looking at, looking at doing that. I've, I've, I've developed a page and sort of a little COVID project was just to get a page up. Um, and I've just, I've got some long for a couple of long format videos, but most of them are shorts.

[00:30:41] Michael Hunter: Um, but yeah, I might start focusing on that. Uh, Tik Tok is even more strict than meta. So I know the Tik Tok is just food, but, but, you know, like if it's, it's a private company, let's, and it's their terms and conditions, you know, what are, what are we going to do? Yeah, we need, uh, someone in the hunting community to start a platform.

[00:30:59] Michael Hunter: Yeah. And then actually take 

[00:31:00] Travis Bader: off, 

[00:31:00] Michael Hunter: you know, maybe Twitter's the answer, uh, you know, Musk and his free speech, you know, I don't know. 

[00:31:07] Travis Bader: Interesting. 

[00:31:08] Michael Hunter: Yeah. I'm 

[00:31:08] Travis Bader: always curious about that just because I'm in a similar type of business other than the, uh, the cooking part of it. Yeah. Uh, hunting outdoors, firearms and all the rest.

[00:31:18] Travis Bader: And I've, I've, I think the, uh, the newsletter is a pretty, uh, uh, valuable tool. Okay. That's something that I've come to learn because, um, you know, Meta can't, can't Uh, but controls around that. So utilizing meta to grow a newsletter list by providing free assets or whatever it might be. I'm terrible at monetizing things.

[00:31:38] Travis Bader: I tend to give it all away for free, but it's one of these things. That's something I've been exploring. But you just got back from a bit of a road trip too, didn't you? 

[00:31:47] Michael Hunter: I did. Yeah. I, uh, I drove to West Point, Mississippi, the, uh, the home of Mossy Oak, um, where, uh, I've, I've, uh, I've got some dear friends down there.

[00:31:56] Michael Hunter: Um, That, uh, I went and picked up a black lab puppy. And this is your first puppy in a long time? My first puppy in a long time. Like, uh, I mentioned, I grew up with, uh, hounds and fox hunting dogs. Um, fox hounds, as they're called. But, um, and I had German shepherds growing up. Um, you know, recently in the last decade, my mom's had a couple of lurchers, which are like, uh, uh, greyhound crosses.

[00:32:20] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:32:21] Michael Hunter: Um, but yeah, it's been a long time since I've had a puppy. So it's a definitely a eyeopening experience. Did you get much sleep last night? Last night I did, the night before, no. So, uh, last night was, uh, I think he slept from 1030 to 530. So that was, it was great. It's like 

[00:32:37] Travis Bader: having a newborn, isn't it?

[00:32:38] Travis Bader: Yeah. I completely, so got a puppy a couple of years ago. I was out, um, there's, um, a place I was voted into. They've only got eight members and you either have to leave or pass away. And unfortunately somebody passed away, but that opened a spot. I was voted in for a hunting shack. And, uh, with that hunting shack also comes the ability to do some Pheasant hunting, which I'd never done before.

[00:33:01] Travis Bader: Yeah. I mean, these are, these are released birds, but it was, um, it's always just been water fowl and out in that area. But anyways, a pheasant happened to show up, flew up in the air. I shot the thing. It went down with a thud, feathers everywhere. And I look over at my buddy, like, Hey, it's my first pheasant, right?

[00:33:20] Travis Bader: And everyone's hooting and hollering. And yeah. And then I spent the next four and a half hours looking for it. Yeah. I couldn't find the thing and I must've, like it was a solid shot in the thing. Yeah. There's so many feathers. It went straight down. I thought for sure. It must've had enough energy to do a runner and it's a swampy, kind of marshy area and, and.

[00:33:41] Travis Bader: Anyways, I got on the phone, I called my wife up and I said, we're getting a dog. She's like, well, I've already been researching them. She was already on it. We got ourselves a puppy, a small Munsterlander, Munsterlander, and I'd never even heard of the breed before. But yeah, it's, um, A great versatile dog, really good for upland game and, um, it's been doing well for waterfowl as well for me.

[00:34:04] Travis Bader: Yeah, which is awesome. Pretty cool. They're supposed to have tons of energy outside and turn it off inside, which he kind of does, but what I wasn't prepared for was the first few weeks of basically having a newborn in the house and you're up every couple hours, letting it out and dealing with it. Yeah, that was, uh, Yeah, I opened it for me.

[00:34:22] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[00:34:24] Michael Hunter: Yeah. It's wild, but he's, uh, he's great. Like I've, I've been crate training him and he doesn't go to the bathroom in his crate and I let him out every couple hours and, uh, yeah, he slept last night for the first time, so it was great. Amazing. So 

[00:34:35] Travis Bader: tell me a little bit about the food that you get in here, right?

[00:34:38] Travis Bader: Because people are going to say, hold on a second. You can't have wild game in a restaurant, which is true, except 

[00:34:44] Michael Hunter: for maybe what? Newfoundland? Newfoundland, yeah. Or if it's charity. So if we're doing a charity event, we will. Um, but, uh, yeah, so we work with all the local game farms that are in Ontario and, uh, a farm in Alberta for their bison.

[00:34:57] Michael Hunter: Um, so it's all game animals, but they are, uh, you know, slaughtered in a, you know, federally inspected facility. It goes to a processor and then we.

[00:35:07] Michael Hunter: So we do like duck, pheasant, uh, we do lots of wild fish, uh, well, you know, seafood and shellfish, um, uh, and then, yeah, I think we do, uh, duck, rabbits, wild boar, venison, bison. Um, I think right now there's wild shrimp from BC or side stripe shrimp. Right. Um, we'll do, you know, East coast scallops and oysters and things like that.

[00:35:30] Michael Hunter: Um, We're doing, uh, a steelhead trout at the moment. Um, we'll do Arctic char when that's running and salmon, springs, halibut, you know, all that stuff. So beautiful. And a little bit of lobster too. Yes. Thank you very much for my lobster delivery. 

[00:35:45] Travis Bader: Yeah. That was an interesting one. I, uh, I'm Halifax was over there for the last few weeks.

[00:35:51] Travis Bader: I spent a week with the armament technology, fantastic company doing some small mouth bass fishing. First time I've ever, uh, Fish or small mouth bass, cause we don't really get it where we're at. Apparently there's some secret spots where people have released them, but, um, in BC. And, uh, and all you can eat lobster was at the, uh, the owners, we call them cabins.

[00:36:10] Travis Bader: You guys call them cottages, I think. Yes. Yes. At the owner's cottage up there. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that was really good. And so anyways, I was looking for places to get lobster. Turns out right at the airport, they got lobster right there and still pretty fresh because their season just ended. Yeah. And, um, so I call them up and Yeah, not a problem.

[00:36:29] Travis Bader: We'll put some aside. Like I had no clue how it worked. I didn't realize they have hundreds of lobster right there in a, in a tank at the airport. Yeah. Oh, hilarious. Which is pretty cool. Yeah. And, uh, I said, well, you know, he was hoping to get what, 10 pounds of lobster and so okay, yeah, we'll have it all ready for you.

[00:36:45] Travis Bader: So I go and I pick it up and, uh, get the bill. I'm like, holy crow. They sure hosey at the airport. Okay. Whatever. Right. And I keep going to check out with this thing and, uh, they put it on the scale and looking at the weight and I look at the receipt and. They give me, it was almost 23 pounds of lobster. Oh no.

[00:37:02] Travis Bader: And I'm like, ah, okay, well, I guess he's getting 23 pounds of lobster. I thought, Oh wait a minute. I haven't even looked at the box yet. What if he can't use 23 pounds? What if I go back and forth? So I'm running back over and I explained to them and okay, fair enough. And they, they go back and get them down to about 11 pounds and they go.

[00:37:19] Travis Bader: And, uh, put their dry ice pack in, then of course the airport, they're like, well, that's a, that's a check on bag. We want to charge you an extra 70 bucks. I'm like, oh man, can I just gate check it? I'm like, okay, no problem. You can gate check it, right? Okay. So go through security. Security says, what are you doing with dry ice in here?

[00:37:36] Travis Bader: Oh, come on. Right. I guess they usually use frozen peas. So, uh, I, uh, I said, well, those Ziploc bags that you have over there, can I get a bunch of those? And they're like, yeah, okay. So I ran over to Tim Horton's on the other side and got him to fill a fly's. And anyways, it all worked out. Well, thank 

[00:37:53] Michael Hunter: you, man.

[00:37:54] Michael Hunter: I didn't realize how much trouble it was. 

[00:37:56] Travis Bader: I wouldn't call it trouble. It was just kind of fun. It was a bit of an adventure. I'd had enough time to go through and do it. It was just a interesting dealing with each one of the individuals on there. Oh, that's so funny. 

[00:38:06] Michael Hunter: I'm, I'm surprised that they would actually pack it with dry ice at the airport when you're telling them you're flying with it.

[00:38:11] Travis Bader: Well, that's it, right? Well, I guess Because it 

[00:38:12] Michael Hunter: changes the cabin pressure, right? Which can be like detrimental to flying. 

[00:38:16] Travis Bader: What, 

[00:38:16] Michael Hunter: what does? The dry ice? The dry ice, yeah. 

[00:38:18] Travis Bader: Is how it is. 

[00:38:19] Michael Hunter: Because it's a gas and it's Yeah. So it'll change the cabin pressure, which can, you know, cause an emergency. I 

[00:38:27] Travis Bader: figured it was because like when I was younger, we'd use dry ice and we'd put them in bottles and 

[00:38:32] Michael Hunter: a 

[00:38:32] Travis Bader: little bit of water, cap them up and throw them and watch them hopefully blow up.

[00:38:35] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[00:38:37] Michael Hunter: Well, I guess that too, right. It can, it can, uh, the pressure can explode and it also, it changes the pressure in the plane. Yeah. It's a good point. 

[00:38:44] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:38:45] Michael Hunter: There's actually like, uh, stories of little hobby, Okay. Pilots, uh, you know, flying with guys on hunting trips that, that they didn't ask. And they're actually plane goes down.

[00:38:54] Michael Hunter: I've, I, so I've heard they could be folklore. I don't know, but. 

[00:38:57] Travis Bader: Oh, that'd be interesting. That never even crossed my mind. I'm sure the listeners will have. Someone 

[00:39:02] Michael Hunter: will correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure. 

[00:39:05] Travis Bader: And let us know. Totally. Yeah. That's, you know, I love it. If you really want something to take off, put some inaccuracies in it.

[00:39:13] Travis Bader: Everybody will jump in. I've heard 

[00:39:15] Michael Hunter: that people try and engagement farm by putting spelling mistakes in their posts. So I don't care about likes and comments that much, but 

[00:39:23] Travis Bader: yeah. One thing I've learned is if you're going to be posting about. Um, foraging. There's that whole community that knows a lot more about foraging than I ever.

[00:39:33] Travis Bader: Yeah. The Latin 

[00:39:33] Michael Hunter: names of everything. I don't know them, but I know some of them. They're ovate. Okay. Um, the one thing I love is when complete strangers, um, send me pictures of mushrooms that, you know, when you're taking a picture of a mushroom and you want it for identification, you have to get multiple angles, you know, the soil or the The wood that it's on, you know, the gills or the absence of gills.

[00:39:55] Michael Hunter: There's all these things you should do when photographing mushrooms to try and get the ID, you know, on top of getting a spore print, which is one of the most accurate ways to help identify mushrooms. I'll get these like blurry photos of like one angle of a mushroom. I don't know if it's in dirt or wood from a complete stranger.

[00:40:12] Michael Hunter: And it's like, is this safe to eat? And it's like, well, and a lot of times I'll send them back, you know, as a complete stranger, you. Might not want to ask this. You know, what if I'm wrong, , like, you know, what if I mean well, but I'm wrong. Like, you could die. Yeah. You know? So Yeah. Please don't send me mushroom ID pictures , because I'm, I'm also not a mycologist, you know?

[00:40:31] Michael Hunter: No, I know, I know the mushrooms that I know. Um, but, you know, there's, there's, uh, a vast, uh, array of mushrooms that, you know, the scientists don't even know what they are. It's such a, a, you know, huge, uh, topic. Um, so I always 

[00:40:45] Travis Bader: find that funny. I see the memes and people in the mushroom forest, like, Oh, what's this?

[00:40:49] Travis Bader: And they take a picture atop somebody's head. And they're like, Oh, do you know who this is? Right. It's like same sort of thing. God, you got to have all these different angles. 

[00:40:57] Michael Hunter: You know who Hank Shaw is? I do. Yeah. He, we actually, he did a, uh, one of his book, his book tour came through Toronto. So we did a dinner with Hank.

[00:41:04] Travis Bader: Beautiful. 

[00:41:04] Michael Hunter: Yeah. Okay. So great dude. 

[00:41:06] Travis Bader: He was the guy that got me into foraging. Oh, cool. Yeah. So I went down, visited with him and went through the sheer Nevada mountain range. And I, I had, I had zero interest in foraging. I had zero interest in going out and picking mushrooms. And, but the second you learn about it and you learn a little bit about they're everywhere, they're 

[00:41:25] Michael Hunter: everywhere.

[00:41:25] Michael Hunter: Yeah. And you don't, you don't see them until you, someone shows you and then you're like, then you recognize that they're everywhere. 

[00:41:30] Travis Bader: Oh yeah. And it's like, It's like an Easter egg hunt for adults, right? It's fantastic. 

[00:41:35] Michael Hunter: Yeah. 

[00:41:35] Travis Bader: I can also see how people can get lost when they're. Oh yeah. 

[00:41:38] Michael Hunter: Yeah. I would, I would be hunting.

[00:41:40] Michael Hunter: Uh, we used to piss my friends off. I, we'd, you know, we'd be turkey hunting and they'd be 300 yards ahead and I'm on my hands and knees in the woods picking morels and they're like, where is this guy? Like, are you kidding me? What are you doing? And I'm like, I got a hat full of morels. And they're like, can you eat those?

[00:41:52] Michael Hunter: And I actually sent my friend home. Like we found tons. And, uh, you know, his wife wouldn't touch them. And he was like, I don't trust those. And anyway, that's funny. But they got to be cooked first, right? Yeah, they should. Yeah. 

[00:42:04] Travis Bader: I, um, friend went out and picked a bunch of morels and she's like, I don't know why we all got stomach aches.

[00:42:09] Travis Bader: I don't know what's going on. We're eating them raw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that might be why apparently they should be cooked first. 

[00:42:14] Michael Hunter: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think all they, you know, they recommend all, all wild mushrooms to cook them first. But I've eaten a little bit kind of here and there raw, but yeah, you should.

[00:42:24] Michael Hunter: If you eat a big bowl full of them raw, you're going to get a stomachache. I think that's what they did. They're out hunting. They just put them in a salad or something. Um, they're also like little bugs too. Like I'll put them in, uh, uh, chanterelles can be too. Put them in, uh, I think a salt water for five to 10 minutes and you'll see all the little bugs come out.

[00:42:41] Michael Hunter: Right. Yep. 

[00:42:43] Travis Bader: Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll just visually look for if they're buggy or not, but I guess sometimes you can't 

[00:42:47] Michael Hunter: tell, yeah, they're like those tiny little fly, uh, worms. Okay. Uh, they're a little white guys and they'll just, even though you think there's no mushrooms in them, they'll, if you're cooking them, it's, it's not a big deal, but I always try and soak them for a couple of minutes in saltwater.

[00:43:00] Travis Bader: That's disgusting. Yeah. 

[00:43:02] Michael Hunter: Give them a rinse and a shake and you'll see. See all the dirt and stuff at the bottom. And then the one thing for the tip I have for, for washing wild mushrooms, cause a lot of, you know, mushrooms will soak up the water. Put it on a baking sheet with a kitchen towel for, you know, five, 10 minutes or put it in your fridge on that towel.

[00:43:17] Michael Hunter: And they'll absorb all the extra water and they'll, they'll kind of dry out. Oh, that's a good idea. So you should be washing them, you know, you definitely should be cooking them. But, um, if you want to get, you know, sometimes the morels and chanterelles, depending on the soil, they can be really sandy. Um, and the morels is all little holes in the, uh, you know, that kind of brain like structure.

[00:43:38] Michael Hunter: Um, it's a good spot for sand. Um, so if they're really sandy, I'll always wash them. Yeah. Cause it, nothing like worse than kind of gritty. So you're a big time turkey 

[00:43:48] Travis Bader: hunter from what I understand. 

[00:43:49] Michael Hunter: So turkey hunting was the first animal I hunted for food. Um, and I was, as a chef, I, you know, I was like, I've been working in restaurants since I was 13 years old.

[00:43:59] Michael Hunter: Um, and turkey is really the, one of the only meats in the world. That's you know mass produced farm that everyone knows what it tastes like. So to, to see the stark contrast between wild Turkey and farm Turkey, uh, really just, you know, blew my socks off. It was, um, immediately after shooting it, it's like, Oh, it's a lot smaller than these farmed things, um, were, were really interesting.

[00:44:21] Michael Hunter: You know, I told my friend I wanted to pluck it. So he showed me how to pluck it. And you know, the fat's yellow, the skin's yellow. I was like, Oh wow. The breast meat, um, you know, it was like, it was like pink, like pork, you know, um, uh, the legs are dark, like almost like deer meat, you know, it was just so visually different.

[00:44:39] Michael Hunter: Um, and then when I cooked it. Um, my mom, you know, we invited my friend that took me hunting for dinner and my mom says, this doesn't even taste like Turkey. And he said, uh, you know, no, that shit in the grocery store doesn't taste like Turkey. This is how Turkey is supposed to taste like. And that was really the light bulb for me.

[00:44:54] Michael Hunter: Um, I had just seen the documentary food Inc. Um, so I was learning about, you know, hormones and, you know, the foods that animals aren't even sick or consuming all these, um, uh, antibiotics and hormones and things like that. And I was just sort of already, like I'd started a vegetable garden. I was, you know, trying to buy organic and it was really conscious about where my food was coming from.

[00:45:13] Michael Hunter: And then this turkey came to light and it was like, this is what turkey is supposed to taste like. Uh, and that's when I went down the hunting rabbit hole. 

[00:45:21] Travis Bader: You know, I always, growing up, I wasn't a big fan of turkey and I wasn't a big fan of like a Thanksgiving. Dinner, because I'd pick up as a kid, I'd pick up the vegetables with my fork.

[00:45:33] Travis Bader: And if they didn't fall through the tines and they probably weren't cooked enough and, and the, uh, I mean, you cut into the Turkey, if you didn't see a big probably it wasn't cooked enough. I remember coming home long shift and my wife had, um. Put in a long shift at work and, uh, but she wanted to make a Thanksgiving dinner and did up some turkey.

[00:45:56] Travis Bader: I'm like, Oh my God. I like, this is not my favorite food. Brussels sprouts and the turkey and cranberries. And like, none of these things are things I grew up that I liked. And I'm like trying to put on a brave face and be like, okay, well, I can eat anything basically, um, porridge is probably the only thing I've had a difficult time, but that's a different story.

[00:46:17] Travis Bader: Um, And I was blown away by how good it was and how, when it's prepared properly and you don't just put the whole bird in the oven, she's like, well, the breast cooks at different temperatures and rates and the leg meat will. And so you take them all apart. It doesn't have the pretty presentation of a whole bird, but it's going to taste good.

[00:46:37] Travis Bader: Yeah. How do you like to 

[00:46:38] Michael Hunter: cook your turkey? Um, so wild turkey versus farm turkey. I will stick a whole farm turkey in the oven. Um, but, uh, wild turkey, I, I pluck it, um, because I want to, I want to make stock with the bones and stuff. Um, but I will, uh, separate the leg and the breasts and, um, The recipe in my cookbook, which I love and I still make, is I stuff the breast with goat cheese, morels, and ramps, wild leeks, um, with like a sourdough kind of bread crumb.

[00:47:06] Michael Hunter: And it is absolutely my favorite, one of my favorite things of all time. Um, and then what I've been doing recently is I would usually either smoke or braise the legs, but I've been into the pressure cooker lately. So turkey legs in a pressure cooker take like anywhere, depending, cause you can get different weights for the top.

[00:47:24] Michael Hunter: pressure. So the higher the pressure, the lower the cooking time. Um, but yeah, you can do turkey legs and a high pressure pressure cooker in about half an hour, 45 minutes. And I cook it with stock and barbecue sauce. And then once the meat can be shredded just by hand or with a fork, uh, reduce that cooking liquid into your barbecue sauce, mix it all together and do like sliders or.

[00:47:45] Michael Hunter: Pulled pulled turkey. Amazing. It's incredible. Um, so that's been my go to, uh, you know, lately for turkey legs. 

[00:47:52] Travis Bader: Yeah. Those pressure cookers are amazing when they can do two. Yeah. 

[00:47:54] Michael Hunter: And I've, I've just started, I've been sort of reading about pressure canning. So that's kind of why I got it. 

[00:47:58] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:47:59] Michael Hunter: Um, uh, and, you know, doing a little bit of, uh, just kind of pressure canning.

[00:48:02] Michael Hunter: Preserving. I want to can, uh, friends of mine's do canned moose, um, but they're not using jars, they use actual cans, um, because they're lighter and easier to travel with and, uh, they'll do, you know, whatever seasonings basically have like, ready to go meal in a can. Um, that's safer when you can, uh, when you pressure can it, it doesn't have to have, you know, higher salt or higher acid to preserve it.

[00:48:25] Michael Hunter: Right. The heat and pressure, um, you know, basically preserves it. And they said, yeah, you just throw the can in the fire when you're on a snowmobiling trip or a hunt trip, um, and heat stuff up in the fire, just in a can. So. For me, that was really cool. So I've been sort of researching and geeking out on that recently.

[00:48:39] Travis Bader: That is a good idea. Well, does, don't those cans have like a coating on the inside? So your food doesn't, um, uh, react with it. That could, if you're in the fire, kind of melt off of it. 

[00:48:48] Michael Hunter: Um, that, I don't know that would, I think they're just tin, but I, I'm not sure, maybe grocery store cans have that. I'm not sure.

[00:48:55] Michael Hunter: Um, Cause it was actually a restaurant in Quebec. They've been doing like a duck confit, uh, cassoulet kind of dish in a can where they open it up at your table and dump it out. So, and they heat that up. I think they steam the can or something, but, um, got it. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think you'd have to be careful about what kind of tin you're using and if there is that coating on it.

[00:49:15] Michael Hunter: Um, but, uh, Yeah, I actually, I haven't, I've, I've, I've done the pressure canning and the glass. I haven't found the, the cans are a different little bit of different setup and you have to actually buy the machine to seal them. 

[00:49:25] Travis Bader: Right. 

[00:49:25] Michael Hunter: It's like this big tabletop thing. And they're, uh, a couple thousand dollars.

[00:49:29] Michael Hunter: So I haven't, I haven't graduated to that yet. Not yet. Not that serious yet. Not yet, but, uh, one day. 

[00:49:34] Travis Bader: Yeah. Well, I was lucky for the longest. I'm right next door to the studio in. Vancouver, uh, was a butcher packer supply. And so every year for Christmas and birthdays and Valentine's day, the gift was, Hey, you're getting a meat slicer.

[00:49:50] Travis Bader: Oh, cool. Hey, you're getting a sausage stuffer. Perfect. Absolutely. Perfect. And she loved it. So it worked out well for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Pressure cooking. Oxtail. That's one of my favorite things that a pressure cooker. 

[00:50:01] Michael Hunter: Jamaican 

[00:50:01] Travis Bader: cuisine, oxtail. So when it comes to turkey, I haven't done much turkey hunting.

[00:50:07] Travis Bader: School me, if I'm going to be a successful turkey hunter, what are some things that I need to be good at? 

[00:50:11] Michael Hunter: I guess, prepare yourself for disappointment. Okay. Okay. I've got that, check. 

[00:50:15] Travis Bader: I got that one. 

[00:50:16] Michael Hunter: Yeah. Um, so turkeys have incredible eyesight, you know, they can't smell us, thank God, or we'd never shoot them, but, um, they just have incredible eyesight.

[00:50:24] Michael Hunter: So, um, really they're good. Get yourself a really good blind. Um, or, uh, you have to be really still and kind of sit, sit behind some kind of natural blind. Um, but yeah, movement, movement and, you know, camouflage and just like having mesh kind of over your face and gloves and stuff. Um, but yeah, movement is kind of their number one sort of, uh, things they'll pick off if they see you.

[00:50:47] Michael Hunter: Um, So you just have to sit really, really still. Um, and then, you know, calling there's all kinds of, you know, mouth calls. I, I, like a diaphragm type call that I like cause you can kind of have your hands free. Um, but you, you know, you can use a box call, a slate call. They all kind of make different, you know, similar sounds.

[00:51:05] Michael Hunter: Um, I would, you know, just, I would watch some sort of videos on how to call, right. Uh, you know, don't over call. Um, but yeah, Turkey, Turkey hunting is something that, uh, you know, now I've been doing, uh, about, you know, 20 plus years of, and, you know, No matter how much of an expert you think you are, you'll be humbled a few times a year.

[00:51:28] Michael Hunter: And, uh, it's, I think it's a sickness because it's the same amount of effort that goes into like deer hunting or elk hunting or whatever. It's, it's the exact same amount of effort, the same amount of driving, the same amount of preparation. It's a whole different set of gear and money you're going to spend for like 10 pounds of meat, like it is a sick obsession.

[00:51:47] Michael Hunter: Um, but I love it. And it's, it's, um, the excitement that that bird, uh, causes, um, you know, makes the, when they gobble, I don't know how they can be so freaking loud, but all the hair stands up on your back and your neck and it's just, Oh my goodness. This thing is just screaming at you. And it, it's kind of similar to elk hunting when they bugle that scream, you know, just makes all the hair on your body stand up.

[00:52:11] Michael Hunter: Um, But it's this little bird, you know, I, I took a really dear friend of mine hunting that's from Brazil. Um, obviously they don't, they don't have wild Turkey in Brazil, but he's hunted all over the world. He's hunted Africa. He's hunted Cape Buffalo. Um, he's always wanted to go Turkey hunting. So we took him Turkey hunting, uh, and he was shaking for like 10 minutes after and he goes, I haven't shaken like this since I, you know, shot a Cape Buffalo.

[00:52:31] Michael Hunter: Like he was just, he couldn't believe. You know, how, uh, exciting this bird was. And, and, uh, it took him a long time to shoot it. Cause he was just, there was, I think a bunch of Jake's and some, some, you know, less dominant Toms and the big dominant Tom and they're all like, he just had this huge, uh, kind of show in front of them.

[00:52:47] Michael Hunter: And we kept being like, Hey, you need to shoot, you need to shoot. He was just watching, he was just taking it all in. And, uh, yeah, it was just such an incredible experience. And it's, it's. It's an amazing bird. Um, and, uh, it's an amazing hunt. Um, so yeah, if you're new to it or haven't, you know, gone turkey hunting, I would highly recommend it, but, um, it can be frustrating, you know, sometimes they're incredibly stupid and they just, they do exactly what you want them to do.

[00:53:10] Michael Hunter: And they march right in and, you know, some people use decoys sometimes. You don't use decoys, but they come right to you. You know, they come when they're called and it's amazing. And then other times you will like, I remember one turkey, it took me like 20 days to actually shoot one. Uh, I wanted, uh, you know, I wanted to jump off a bridge.

[00:53:26] Michael Hunter: Like it was, my wife was like, can you either shoot one or like stop hunting because you're miserable to live with? And the later in the season, like it starts in the spring, you know, our season is at the end of April. Um, And I think sunrise is like seven o'clock or something. So you go out at like five or six by the end of the season, you're getting up at like 3 00 AM to get out there an hour because the, you know, the, the, the sun is changing, the sunrise keeps changing, getting earlier and earlier.

[00:53:53] Michael Hunter: And it just gets, as the season goes on, it's like more miserable and miserable you become. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a fun addiction. 

[00:54:02] Travis Bader: Well, that's one of the fun things about the hunt is that you can actually hunt in the spring. Yeah. So we've totally, yeah. Breaks up the year. Yeah. So we've got.

[00:54:09] Travis Bader: Bear. Do you have a spring bear here? We do. Okay. That's just in Nova Scotia. And they had a big vote on whether they could. Yeah. They stayed it right. They, they stopped it or they went ahead with, I can't remember. No, no. The, apparently they put the vote out to a Halifax residents and they're like, no, we like these bears.

[00:54:24] Travis Bader: We don't want, they're fuzzy. They're cute. Right. Yeah. Until they rip up your. Um, shed trying to get your garbage. Totally. And they've got enough to support the spring hunt, but it was, it was voted down. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the, 

[00:54:35] Michael Hunter: the 

[00:54:35] Travis Bader: turkey 

[00:54:35] Michael Hunter: hunting's the, um, have you done much bear hunting? I have not. Uh, so I have a friend that, that runs hounds after them, which I quite love.

[00:54:43] Michael Hunter: Um, so it's kind of nostalgic cause he's got some fox hounds mixed in with his walkers and coon hounds and stuff. Um, so I I'm really into that. Um, I've done some of those sitting over a barrel. I've never actually, actually I have killed one over a barrel. Um, but I find the hounds more fun. 

[00:54:57] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:54:58] Michael Hunter: Yeah. In BC, we 

[00:54:58] Travis Bader: can't do it over a barrel.

[00:55:00] Travis Bader: Can't, can't beat them. Alberti can. Yeah. Um, that's where I shot, shot one over a barrel was in Alberta. Yeah. Um, so I've, I've never, I've never hunted over bait. Yeah. Um, I think it'd be an interesting thing to try out. I mean, it's, um, Yeah, I feel like getting eaten by bugs. It's great. Yeah, I guess so, eh? Uh, but yeah, for the, uh, for those turkeys there, I'll see them all over the side of the road in areas where I can't hunt them.

[00:55:24] Travis Bader: And then the second they go out there in the wild, is morning time a better time to get them, is? 

[00:55:28] Michael Hunter: Yeah. So when we, so when they first, when I first started hunting them here, it was fairly new, um, You still had to take a turkey, cause they were extinct in Ontario. So you had to take, they reintroduced them in the eighties, I believe.

[00:55:39] Michael Hunter: Um, and now they're flourishing, which is, which is wonderful for conservation. But, um, when I first started hunting them 22 years ago, uh, you could only hunt till like 11 or noon or something. Okay. You could only shoot one. You had to take a turkey course on how to identify the wild turkey and, you know, all the rules and regulations around turkey hunting.

[00:55:58] Michael Hunter: You had to take it to a way station. Really? To have it weighed and recorded and stuff. Um, so there was all these strict rules around turkey hunting. So you could, you actually couldn't hunt in the afternoon. Um, now you can hunt in the afternoon. They cut it off. I think it's till like five because, um, later than five, they just start coming to their roost tree and they don't want people shooting them out of the trees, right?

[00:56:19] Michael Hunter: I think is the sort of logic behind that, but, um, they're more vocal in the morning, so it's definitely more exciting for a single morning. Um, I actually have had probably better luck around the 10 AM, 11 AM kind of time. At 6 AM, they all fly down. And, uh, they start doing their thing. So they're, they're chasing their hens.

[00:56:38] Michael Hunter: They've got their sort of routine. Um, if you're calling a dominant Tom, he's most likely with hens that he's been kind of courting all season. So when you put up your hen decoy, or if you're making your hen sounds, it's hard to pull the Tom away from, uh, active, you know, real hen. Um, so after that sort of first sunrise, you know, vocal show and, uh, sometimes you'll see them across the field, but they won't come.

[00:57:03] Michael Hunter: Um, I think around like nine or 10, the hens will go back and sit on their nests cause they've got eggs. Right. So then the toms are out cruising, looking for, looking for love. Right. 

[00:57:13] Travis Bader: Looking for love. You know, that 10 11 window, I think I've got more game in that window than any time of the day. And everyone talks about first light and yes, I've gotten game at first light, but, um, 

[00:57:24] Michael Hunter: I 

[00:57:24] Travis Bader: seem to get, get more game in 

[00:57:25] Michael Hunter: that window.

[00:57:26] Michael Hunter: Yeah. And it's, uh, but yeah, you, you know, there are definitely, it's like hunting is, is like every kind of hunting. It's, um, A lot of luck and, and, uh, it can happen 

[00:57:35] Travis Bader: any 

[00:57:36] Michael Hunter: time of day, but. 

[00:57:37] Travis Bader: Yeah, my buddy, he says, you know, tip I use is I'll drive up to an area and I'll early morning, I'll honk my horn. And if I hear something gobble back at me, okay, that's where I get out at.

[00:57:47] Travis Bader: I'm like, okay. 

[00:57:48] Michael Hunter: It's so funny. Like you'll hear a train go by and they'll gobble. It's called a shock gobble. So they just, they get startled when they gobble. Yeah. You slam your car door, they gobble. Um, I know some people, they hunt sort of crown land and they'll gobble. They'll drive around and just kind of call it the truck window.

[00:58:02] Michael Hunter: And if something answers back, they shut the door. They run out with their gear and they kind of go set up, you know, 20 yards from the road or whatever the legal limit is, but 

[00:58:10] Travis Bader: I don't 

[00:58:10] Michael Hunter: know how ethical that is. But, uh, yeah, it's, there's all, there's all kinds of ways you can do it. So you're working 

[00:58:16] Travis Bader: on a new cookbook, perhaps.

[00:58:17] Michael Hunter: Working on a new book. Yeah. So I, uh, the first one was very successful and I was really happy with it. Uh, definitely a labor of love. Yeah. Um, and it did really well. And, and, uh, my publisher was, was really happy. It sold really well in the States too, which was, um, you know, really lucky for a first time Canadian author.

[00:58:34] Michael Hunter: Um, and, uh, I've definitely been a lot more passionate and, uh, inspired by cooking outside. Um, so I mentioned earlier, the more time I spend outside, the less time I want to spend inside. Um, you know, and, and I've just created some really cool recipes cooking out at camps and hunting trips. Um, so I wanted to do a book sort of more focused on cooking outside Uh, you know, a little bit of a barbecue sort of theme to some recipes.

[00:58:59] Michael Hunter: Um, but, uh, you know, over the fire, some pizza recipes. Um, you know, I, I spoke about canning. There's a, a canned moose recipe in there sort of inspired by my, uh, friends from Newfoundland. Um, but, uh, yeah, so this, this next one is over the fire themed. I like 

[00:59:16] Travis Bader: that a lot. 

[00:59:16] Michael Hunter: Yeah. Have, have you ever had moose nose?

[00:59:19] Michael Hunter: I have actually, I had moose nose in Russia of all places and, uh, kind of gelatinous cartilagey, um, Yeah, definitely interesting. I would love to try like an indigenous recipe here. 

[00:59:32] Travis Bader: Right. 

[00:59:33] Michael Hunter: Um, cause I think in, you know, in Russia, Siberia, they've kind of got their own recipes. Um, but yeah, definitely interesting, you know, kind of cool.

[00:59:40] Michael Hunter: Um, would yeah, I'd love to, uh, I've got some indigenous friends, uh, to hit them up for a recipe or to taste, uh, their cooking. 

[00:59:49] Travis Bader: I'd be interested. I 

[00:59:50] Michael Hunter: haven't had 

[00:59:50] Travis Bader: moose nose. I hear, you know, in some cultures that's a delicacy. 

[00:59:53] Michael Hunter: Yeah. And Russia is very cool, uh, in terms of culinary, not, not their Politics and policies, but, um, they can serve wild game.

[01:00:02] Michael Hunter: So, um, my friend that was working there, I don't think the restaurants open, you know, these days with what's going on. Um, but he, uh, worked at a place that everything was wild. Like they didn't bring in anything that was farmed. Um, so I went in there and they had this dry aging room and there was ducks and beaver and moose and all this stuff.

[01:00:18] Michael Hunter: I was like blown away as a chef for me. That's, you know, my dream. Um, and, uh, Because, you know, unlike fish, you can't, unless you hunt yourself, you can't buy wild game, um, because of market hunting and, and, uh, unless you go to Newfoundland, um, because, you know, market hunting and the 1800s has ruined it. So, um, you know, you can buy wild fish as a non fisherman.

[01:00:42] Michael Hunter: Um, but you know, I think kind of people have the right to eat wild game. Uh, and I think with some species that are overabundant, um, you know, maybe there's a way to do it. So how come Newfoundland can get around that? Works. 

[01:00:54] Travis Bader: What's so special over there? There's a couple 

[01:00:55] Michael Hunter: of different sort of theories, uh, and I've spoken to my friends out there and they said that, you know, it's just, it's always the way it's been and no one's ever changed it.

[01:01:03] Michael Hunter: Um, I heard it was a way to sort of cull the moose cause the moose are non native to Newfoundland, the island anyway. Um, and they're sort of pushing out the wild caribou population, they're just eating all the food. Um, you know, I've heard, you know, I don't know how accurate it is, but there's more moose than people.

[01:01:18] Michael Hunter: So they're trying to kind of cull that. too. Yeah. I don't know if it's true or not. But, um. And I've also heard it's a tourism thing. They want people to experience Newfoundland and they did it for tourism. Uh, you know, I don't know the, the ins and outs, the legal stuff behind it, but, uh, you know, for them it works.

[01:01:34] Michael Hunter: Um, I don't know if it's all species or just some species, but again, in terms of conservation, I think there's a way to do it. Um, I definitely don't want. Just support my entire restaurant with wild game. But, uh, you know, in certain seasons, I think there'd be, it would be fun to, uh, explore how to do it as a, as a feature or as a, you know, now we can do it as a charity event.

[01:01:58] Michael Hunter: There's a lot of red tape and, and hassle that goes along with it. But, um, you know, I think if people have the right to eat it and try it, um, You know, we've had some ideas and spoken to some people about, you know, ways that we could try and do it, whether, you know, every hunter in Ontario can get two buck tags a year, right?

[01:02:14] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, without allotting any more tags, you know, why couldn't I use one of my tags to bring to the restaurant? You know, it's, you know, right now it's against the law, but I think it'd be something to consider. You know, it might be interesting for tourism for Ontario and, um, you know, I think, I think, you know, there'd be a lot of controversy.

[01:02:35] Michael Hunter: We might get the vegans back, you know, but, uh, you know, for me, it's a, I want to share that with people and I don't like, I don't want to necessarily make money off it or support my entire restaurant with it. Cause I don't think you could do that. Um, yeah. Uh, you know, sustainably, um, but I would like to share that with people that necessarily don't hunt, you know, like my wild Turkey experience, like, unless you go and hunt one or know someone that hunted one that can gift you that meat, which is pretty precious considering all the work that goes into that little bird.

[01:03:02] Michael Hunter: But, um, you know, I, I think that, uh, uh, I think people, people would really enjoy that experience. 

[01:03:09] Travis Bader: So do you, I'm guessing you spend more time now outside of the kitchen than inside the kitchen. 

[01:03:14] Michael Hunter: Yeah. 

[01:03:15] Travis Bader: Um, and you spend a lot of time traveling too, don't you? I have. Yeah. Yeah. How was that having a young family, running a restaurant, traveling?

[01:03:25] Travis Bader: Yeah. 

[01:03:26] Michael Hunter: How do you deal with all that? Yeah, it's tough. You know, we're lucky. We have great staff here and I wouldn't be able to do it if, if we didn't. Um, you know, definitely the first five, we've been here nine years now. So the first five years I was here a lot, um, you know, nights and weekends and my whole life, you know, as a 13 year old kid, I've been working nights and weekends in restaurants.

[01:03:45] Michael Hunter: So, um. You know, I've got two older kids and one young kid. Um, so now I just, I want to spend more time with my family. So we, I know we've got a great chef here that, you know, we'll, we'll work together on the menu, uh, but he runs the day to day. Um, and I get to see my family. So, uh, the traveling thing, you know, that's, uh, I don't travel, uh, You know, I, I, once a month, I'll take a few days for a trip somewhere during hunting season.

[01:04:12] Michael Hunter: I was, I'm sure you do, you travel more and, um, on the road more, but I don't, I'm not really gone for more than five days to a week, you know, every month. It's still a fair bit. It's a fair bit, but you know, I think. If I was in the restaurant every day, I'd never be home. So 

[01:04:29] Travis Bader: that's the way my 

[01:04:29] Michael Hunter: life was like for a long time.

[01:04:30] Michael Hunter: So for me, it doesn't feel like a lot, but, um, I guess, you know, for the average family, that's nine to five. Sure. That seems like a lot, but, um, you know, my wife used to travel a lot for her work, so she really understands it. Um, and for me, just on the sort of. Business side, you know, now I, I, you know, I work with some brands, uh, because I have a unique, um, you know, niche that I can write recipes for hunting companies and work sort of in the, I can still work in a food space, but in the outdoor space at the same time.

[01:05:00] Michael Hunter: Um, uh, that, you know, now it's a source of income. So it's, it's, it's my hobby, but it's also work now. So. 

[01:05:07] Travis Bader: Yeah. You know, there's always that, uh, that difficulty of making your hobby, your work, and all of a sudden the thing you found so much pleasure and joy in is now becoming something that's your work.

[01:05:18] Travis Bader: Right. Is that something you have to wrestle with? 

[01:05:21] Michael Hunter: A little, a little bit. It's not, uh, it's not too bad. Um, You know, there was only really once that I got really frustrated with something because it was supposed to be a deer hunt where we were going to film some stuff and it turned into, no, we're just filming some stuff and it's looking like a deer hunt and I was like, yeah, this isn't cool.

[01:05:37] Michael Hunter: Like I voiced that pretty clearly. Uh, but yeah, it was, it was, that was probably my only experience that wasn't, uh, wasn't fun, but, um, I'm not a pretend deer hunter. I was like, this is no, no, no, wait a second. Like, I'm like, well, it really doesn't matter if we shoot a deer. There's, we've got all the, we're still at the filming.

[01:05:53] Michael Hunter: I'm like, no, no, no. So, um, but, uh, yeah, for the most part it's, it's been very positive. And, uh, I've met some of my best friends and closest friends today from the hunting community and the outdoors community. And it's, um, it's, yeah, it's been a blessing. 

[01:06:08] Travis Bader: Yeah. It's, uh, a friend of mine, he's an instructor and, uh, teaches hunter education and.

[01:06:16] Travis Bader: Firearm safety and he's, uh, I think he's, what's in his seventies now. Okay. Anyways, um, Indo Canadian fellow. And he talks about, he says in his thick accent and telling me about, he says, you know, people talk about hunting and they talk about firearms and they say that these are just, um, tools that will hurt people and that'll bring people down and he says, all, all of my friends, I've met so many people.

[01:06:42] Travis Bader: This is. Going out hunting and these fires, this is a tool that I've used my entire life. And I've made connections with people that I'd never be able to talk to otherwise. And, uh, he says my closest relations and friends that I have are all because of this. And I always liked that perspective that he had.

[01:06:58] Travis Bader: Yeah. Um, 

[01:07:00] Michael Hunter: Yeah. And it's very strange. Like in North America, uh, I think it's changing a little bit, but, you know, I think of like, you know, duck dynasty and these sort of redneck, you know, hunters and they, I'm sure they ham it up a bit to lean more into that, but, uh, you know, in, in Europe and other parts of the world, hunting is a very high class kind of nobility type, uh, sport, you know?

[01:07:20] Michael Hunter: Um, and in North America, it's really looked down on. Um, you know, Um, you know, when you actually talk to hunters and talk about the conservation piece, like all of the money generated from tags and generated from hunting sales in the States, percentages of those sales go towards conservation where, and, you know, if you look at the whole Africa sort of hunting, uh, controversies that, uh, You know, without the hunting dollars, those animals die.

[01:07:45] Michael Hunter: Right. Um, and I was, you know, even as a hunter, I didn't understand the African thing. And I think it was a Cecil the lion sort of thing that blew up and went viral. I was like, you know, that's stupid. Why would anyone shoot a lion? And then someone actually took the time to talk to me about, okay, the money that is generated by hunting these animals actually pays for the rangers that go in there and protect them 

[01:08:04] Travis Bader: because 

[01:08:05] Michael Hunter: without, you know, the, the anti hunting community, they don't, Spend enough money on it.

[01:08:09] Michael Hunter: So it was just sort of fascinating. And then when you actually look at the sort of the, some of the science behind animal management that, you know, some of these animals like lions or whatever, that they're, they are hunting in Africa, they're too old to breed. They won't let the younger lions breed. It's actually better for the population if you shoot the oldest dominant one.

[01:08:29] Travis Bader: So 

[01:08:29] Michael Hunter: it's kind of fascinating, you know, not that, uh, You know, I'm not, I don't have any desire to go and do it. Um, but at least now I understand it and I'm not sort of ignorant about it. You've hunted outside of Canada? I have in, uh, in, in the States. Yes. Um, I think we're, I've done hunting in Italy, um, with Frankie.

[01:08:51] Michael Hunter: Um, uh, did some shooting in Brazil. There's some things you can do while bored and stuff like that. So, um, Again, I don't think they had proper sort of management practices and, and they sort of banned hunting. Um, it's coming back now with, uh, you know, the invasion of wild boar. Um, uh, but I think that's 

[01:09:10] Travis Bader: it.

[01:09:11] Travis Bader: It's interesting looking at different cultures and how they approach hunting. Like you're saying in Europe, it's, uh, I, 

[01:09:17] Michael Hunter: we're all the same. Which is like, I've hunted with Italian guys that we don't speak the same language, but we'll laugh like someone will miss. And then they start razzing their body, you know, like, it's like, we're all the same and it's, we're all doing this for the same reasons.

[01:09:28] Michael Hunter: And we just want to put food on it. Like it's, it's, it's really funny when you start looking at the different cultures, but like, we're the same people. 

[01:09:35] Travis Bader: That's it. You're connecting with nature, you're connecting with each other. Yeah. Uh, you're doing something that's not easy. Yeah. There's a shared adversity to it all and there's a celebration at the end.

[01:09:44] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Is there any, well, what do you see yourself in the future? Where do you see things going with yourself personally and with Antler? 

[01:09:53] Michael Hunter: Yeah. You know, we, um, we've been here for nine years, so it's, we, you know, we're struggling with growth. We'd, we'd love to grow the brand and grow the business.

[01:10:00] Michael Hunter: Um, you know, we've had some bad luck with the economy and things like that. Um, you know, we had a, we were trying to buy a building during COVID and that fell through, um, our interest rates now with borrowing and real estate are really out of whack. So. You know what, I'd like, I'd love to grow the brand and maybe, uh, uh, maybe a few more locations, maybe a little bit of a different type of concept.

[01:10:20] Michael Hunter: Um, one thing we didn't plan on here is, um, being so meat focused, especially with, if I butchered a whole salmon in front of the window, it might've been a lot different for us, but I love seafood and it's, I love fish and seafood and it's, people come here to try game meat. So it's, I didn't realize that with the name and with the thing in the front window that, uh, we'd really do that.

[01:10:40] Michael Hunter: Turn into a wild game kind of steakhouse, but, uh, nothing's any wrong with that. I just, I, I would love to sell more fish and it's hard with our name, um, and concept that we've sort of created, but, uh, so I'd love to do a bit more of a seafood focused concept, um, like 

[01:10:57] Travis Bader: a completely separate restaurant, a different restaurant.

[01:10:59] Travis Bader: Yeah. Um, that'd be good. Yeah. Thought up yet? I don't 

[01:11:02] Michael Hunter: have a name. No, finding a name for the restaurant was actually the hardest part of opening restaurant. Was it really? One of the hardest part. Yeah. We had hundreds of names on a white chalkboard. Um, and it was very difficult because once, you know, that name, like that's your identity forever, you know, until you're, until you close it, so, uh, or rebrand or whatever.

[01:11:18] Michael Hunter: But, um, Yeah, I would love, I would love to work with more fish, um, you know, we've got the other, other book in the works. Uh, I'd like to continue the, the cookbooks. I think it's, uh, it helps me as a chef grow and it's forcing me to kind of come up with new ideas and recipes. Um, yeah, I'd like to do some more media stuff.

[01:11:36] Michael Hunter: I may have a show in the works and the outdoor space. Um, and, um, Just continue to kind of keep growing as a, as a hunter and a chef. Are you writing the full book front to back? You got people helping with certain areas? So this, the first book, um, I definitely had a lot of help. Uh, this book, I took on more of the writing.

[01:11:59] Michael Hunter: Um. Myself, um, which was a challenge, but fun. Um, I, I definitely want to create more of a team environment for the book. Um, my business partner is a photographer. One of his sort of jobs that, uh, careers that he has as a, is in photography. So he does, uh, he does the food photography. I actually took a lot of the landscape and wildlife photography.

[01:12:20] Michael Hunter: I did. I love photography, but I would, I would love, um, And when I was spoken to, you know, guys like Hank Shaw or, or I actually, I don't know if he has a team, but there's a, there's a guy actually on the East coast, um, chef Michael Smith, he's done, I think, 12 books. So he's got a team. He's got some guys in the kitchen that help him, the photographers.

[01:12:39] Michael Hunter: Uh, he does all the writing, but he's, he's got a team that kind of. that help. I think it's three or four people. Um, yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to maybe get a little team together for the books because it's, it's so much work. The, like my books are a hundred recipes, uh, and the writing, the photography, the cooking, everything.

[01:12:56] Michael Hunter: It's, it's just crazy how much goes into it. And then you have to reshoot stuff and take multiple takes of things. And it's, um, it's very, very difficult. So. 

[01:13:05] Travis Bader: Well, if you can template that, you know, Hank, Hank, I don't think he's got a team he does. He's a very talented writer. And I think his photos were mostly at the one point anyways, was Holly doing it.

[01:13:15] Travis Bader: Yeah. But, um, uh, I think if you're able to template that and so everyone's got their tasks and you can roll it out. That'd be a lot of fun. But then of course you're relying on this whole team, but the same breath, then you don't have to necessarily be the one driving it forward at every step. 

[01:13:34] Michael Hunter: Um, definitely in the writing, the recipes, like I'm great at scribbling a recipe or in my phone, in my notes.

[01:13:40] Michael Hunter: But when it comes to, you know, putting it in the cookbook format, it's a very special Particular format and, uh, uh, the list of ingredients has to match the method. And it's, yeah, it's definitely, uh, definitely, uh, a challenging, challenging work. Do you do much baking? I love baking. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, uh, my business partner and I did a, uh, bread course in Chicago with a, um, uh, master, uh, French baker.

[01:14:06] Michael Hunter: Um, just to kind of, uh, You know, learn some more about sourdough and natural, uh, yeasts and stuff like that. But yeah, I love baking. I love pizza, uh, even pastry. I love the pastry kitchen. So just a lot of chefs will specialize and some chefs, they, they don't hate pastry and they hate baking and sort of vice versa.

[01:14:24] Michael Hunter: But, uh, yeah, I love it all. I love it. I just, I love challenging. I love going down the rabbit hole of information and figuring things out. Um, recently I, I had a sort of distilling and. Uh, moonshining sort of rabbit hole during COVID, um, which was interesting and fun. And then I later found out completely illegal in Canada.

[01:14:43] Michael Hunter: Well BC, 

[01:14:43] Travis Bader: you can actually do it. Oh, cool. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. You can have a, you're just not supposed to be selling it, I guess. But aside from that, you can have stills. Yeah. 

[01:14:50] Michael Hunter: Very cool. 

[01:14:51] Travis Bader: Um, I think, I say, not that I would. Yeah, I haven't 

[01:14:54] Michael Hunter: checked that out, but, um, but because of that and my hobby and learning about fermentation, we actually, um, developed a gin, uh, with a local distillery, uh, called Nickel Nine and we're doing a cedar gin.

[01:15:05] Michael Hunter: So gin is usually juniper forward. Uh, one of our cocktails in the early days of antler and we still have today is a cedar gin sour. So we're taking gin, uh, we're trying to figure out ways we incorporate foraging into the cocktail menu. So we started infusing, you know, store bought gin with just the green cedar boughs, like the leaves.

[01:15:25] Michael Hunter: Um, and it kind of, Had this beautiful forest flavor. So we, uh, you know, it took a while to figure out how long to infuse it. You know, if you do it too long, it goes Brown and you're going to get more of a woody taste. Um, so I think it's a couple of days. We do it with that green leaf from the Cedar and it has a very fresh kind of foresty flavor.

[01:15:42] Michael Hunter: And then we do a, like a Cedar gin sour with that. Um, so, you know, post COVID and my moonshining sort of a hobby. Um, we wanted to put this in a bottle and sell it. So, um, Uh, now, yeah, now we have the antlered cedar gin. I see right there. Besides behind you there. Get a picture of that later. But yeah, I had 

[01:15:59] Travis Bader: some last night actually.

[01:16:00] Travis Bader: It was fantastic. Yeah, it was very good. 

[01:16:02] Michael Hunter: Uh, so that's kind of how that happened. There's another project. Uh, I love, um, tapping, uh, trees for maple syrup in the spring. So I want to try and use that and, and to, uh, to distilled sort of, um, a product that we're working on. You guys have a 

[01:16:15] Travis Bader: lot of sugar maples around here, don't you?

[01:16:17] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah, especially 

[01:16:18] Michael Hunter: on north of the city. Um, one of the farms where I grew up, um, I play on the neighbor's farm. Uh, my mom sold the farm long ago, but, um, I still go up and tap the neighbor's trees and my business partners cottage we tap up there. Um, and just sort of for our own use, you know, I make about 50 liters, I think a year, which is not enough for the restaurant, but we'll do some little features or dinners with it.

[01:16:39] Michael Hunter: But most of it is just for home. 

[01:16:41] Travis Bader: Okay. And so 50 liters, that's going to be like, how many to make 50 liters? How much? That's a ton to make 50 liters, 

[01:16:48] Michael Hunter: isn't it? I find that it's depending on the season, but you generally get a liter per tap at the end of the year, a finished syrup. 

[01:16:54] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[01:16:55] Michael Hunter: So it's anywhere from 20 liters to 40 liters of, of raw sap.

[01:17:00] Michael Hunter: Boiled down to make one liter of syrup. That's crazy. And that depends on the tree. So a sugar maple has a higher sugar content than like a red or silver maple or where you guys are, the big leaf maple. Yeah. Um, but yeah, they all have sugar. It's just the actual species of tree. The sugar maple, uh, has a higher sugar content.

[01:17:18] Travis Bader: We've got family in Nova Scotia who will do it. I've never done it back in BC because it's, I don't know. I I've heard people do it. Birch. 

[01:17:25] Michael Hunter: Yep. Yeah. You do birch syrup. Birch syrup happens, they run later. So you can actually make maple syrup first and then the birch starts running. Maples, uh, they stop running when that, when they start to bud and the snow melts, they're kind of done.

[01:17:38] Michael Hunter: Um, what happens when it freezes at night? and thaws during the day, the sap flows up the tree. They're trying to feed the, the, the, the buds to grow leaves. Um, and then once the snow melts, uh, the birch start running for some reason. 

[01:17:52] Travis Bader: Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about?

[01:17:55] Travis Bader: I'm sure there's lots, 

[01:17:56] Michael Hunter: but, uh, yeah, that's it that comes to mind. Okay. Well, I'm looking 

[01:18:00] Travis Bader: forward to 

[01:18:01] Michael Hunter: when you're 

[01:18:01] Travis Bader: over here in BC 

[01:18:03] Michael Hunter: or. Yeah, I'll let you know. I've taken up spearfishing. Yeah. Uh, I love, I love throwing out crab and prawn traps. BC is great. I love BC. Well, guess what? I've got prawn traps. You're really awesome, man.

[01:18:14] Michael Hunter: Let's hang out. And spears. Oh, amazing. Cool. Yeah. 

[01:18:17] Travis Bader: I got a, um. A couple of spearguns, but you know what I prefer to use? It's just a Hawaiian sling. Oh, really? Yeah. What do you use them? 

[01:18:23] Michael Hunter: So I've only done it once and, uh, a friend of my wife's actually, who I've become really great friends with, uh, he's a, I think carpenter contractor by trade and he's, he makes his own spear guns on the Island.

[01:18:34] Michael Hunter: So it's, it's, I think it's Bickerson, Brett Bickerson, Bickerson spear guns from Vancouver Island. I'll have to check it out. Yeah. So he does their kind of a wooden, uh, frame or stock, I guess. Um, and then he's got the rubber bands and the metal spears. Well, you've done some work with meat eater too. Yes.

[01:18:51] Michael Hunter: Yeah. So Kimmy Werner. Yes. Have you done anything with her? I've met her at a Traeger barbecue conference, which was awesome. She's great. Um, I haven't actually worked or connected with her. Um, I haven't been to Hawaii in a while, but, uh, yeah, I'd love to do something with her. She's great. 

[01:19:07] Travis Bader: Interesting. Okay.

[01:19:08] Michael Hunter: Well, we'll talk more off air 

[01:19:09] Travis Bader: here, but, uh, 

[01:19:10] Michael Hunter: thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me and coming to Antler. This is great. 

[01:19:14] Travis Bader: Oh, I really enjoyed it. And are you kidding me? I'm definitely gonna be back here.