Silvercore Podcast 156: Jordan Jonas Surviving Alone: The Wilderness Philosopher Who Hunted Wolverine with a Hatchet

https://www.jordanjonas.com/

https://www.instagram.com/hobojordo/

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: Before we dive into this episode, I want to share something that's been on my mind. The outdoors doesn't reveal who you are. It reveals who you pretend to be. I've been thinking a lot about how easily we can fool ourselves with titles, with gear, with comfort, but when you're out there alone in the quiet, none of that matters.

[00:00:36] Travis Bader: You're left with the truth and the truth can be uncomfortable. Or it can be the most freeing thing in the world, and that's why I was so excited to sit down with Jordan. He's someone who's gone through that kind of truth. He didn't just survive alone, he lived it. He leaned into solitude, into discomfort, into stillness, and came out the other side with something deeper.

[00:00:59] Travis Bader: In this conversation, we talk survival, family, faith, mindset, all of the stuff you'd expect. But what struck me the most was his humility. Jordan doesn't posture, he doesn't preach. He just shares his experience and lets it speak for itself. That's something I respect a lot. If this kind of conversation resonates with you, if you're someone who's been craving more than just surface level content, I'll give you a heads up on something we've been working on.

[00:01:31] Travis Bader: The Silver Core Club is about to get a big upgrade. We're building a space for deeper dives. Practical insights, training, tips behind the scenes, thoughts and stories that don't always make it into the public feed. It's not ready yet, but it's coming. And if you are the kind of person who values growth, capability, and connection, I think you're gonna want to be there.

[00:01:56] Travis Bader: Now let's get on with the podcast. I'm joined today by a man who's rode with nomadic reindeer herders in Siberia, hunted Wolverines with a hatchet, and became a household name after outlasting every other contestant in the grueling Arctic on the survival show alone. He's part philosopher, part frontiersman, and all heart.

[00:02:17] Travis Bader: A man who didn't just survive the wild, but found peace and clarity in it. Whether he is teaching others to reconnect with nature or exploring life's deeper questions, his insights are raw, real, and profoundly human. Welcome to the Silver Corp Podcast, Jordan Jonas. 

[00:02:34] Jordan Jonas: Well, thanks. Appreciate the kind introduction.

[00:02:39] Travis Bader: Hey, I figured my job's done. I can sit back. Yeah, and you can be all talking now. 

[00:02:44] Jordan Jonas: Stroked my ego for a little while. 

[00:02:47] Travis Bader: You're the very first person I've ever had who's done the podcast out in the woods with beautiful bull pines, Ponderosa pines. Man, that's awesome. 

[00:02:55] Jordan Jonas: Springtime. It's hard to sit inside right now, so I'm glad the connection's good enough.

[00:03:00] Travis Bader: Oh yeah, no, the connection's. Awesome. Are you just working off of like cell cell service or is this like a Starling thing? Yeah, it's 

[00:03:05] Jordan Jonas: just cell service, so good deal. 

[00:03:08] Travis Bader: Oh, I love it. Well, a lot of people already know who you are. Um, some people don't. Uh, I've actually had the opportunity to meet with one of your compatriots on season six alumni, Nikki Van.

[00:03:22] Travis Bader: Oh, cool. Well, she's been on the podcast and she's a real Oh yeah. She's a real cool cat. And she, I like her. She's fun. Yeah. Oh, she's so fun. And her positivity and her mindset is on point. And, uh, you know, she, she recently reached out and she says, Trav, uh, I'm involved with this other Fox show. They've asked me to be a consultant for it.

[00:03:46] Travis Bader: Um, or she didn't say it was a Fox show. I think it was all hush hush and top secret. Yeah. Some kind of show. Yeah. I'm, I'm involved with this other kind of show, um, but there's gonna be like a hunting portion and contingent maybe, and like, can you come on and help out the contestants? And I'm like, I. Sure.

[00:04:02] Travis Bader: I know nothing about this Hollywood thing. Right, right. But they, but she, um, had me come up, introduced me to the crew, turned out it was Sylvester Stallone's Balboa Group and it was this Fox show called Extracted. Oh yeah. Yeah. So we went up to Whistler and they bring these contestants in one at a time, and we had to give 'em training and testing and I mean, like, usually we do training as a group, but these guys couldn't see each other and Oh, yeah.

[00:04:27] Travis Bader: Got me. Megan hin, she's a cool cat as well, who's a British survivalist. So interesting world that you kinda roll in with these other people who just, just pursue their passion and they just end up finding these opportunities. Like, like what you've had. 

[00:04:43] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. For all our love of the, you know, like the, some of the things we've lost touch with in the modern world.

[00:04:49] Jordan Jonas: It's amazing the opportunities that it provides. Yeah. Well, why do you think that is? What's that? Why do you think that is? Why is it that people are deeply craving Oh, connect So much easier to connect with people around the world who, you know, you have a skill or an ability and there's people that have a desire to, you know, learn from you or whatever, and it just broadens your net so much more than you could a hundred years ago or 10 years 

[00:05:16] Travis Bader: years.

[00:05:16] Travis Bader: Yeah, no kidding. 

[00:05:18] Jordan Jonas: It's pretty wild. It's, it's, it's neat to appreciate, you know, the, the blessing we have in, in our modern world right now, as much as there are to overcome. But, uh, yeah, it's, that's pretty great. I almost, I wondered that sometimes when I was living with the natives out there, uh, in Siberia.

[00:05:38] Jordan Jonas: Long story, we get there.

[00:05:44] Jordan Jonas: It's, we almost live in a time where you can have the best of both worlds if you, if you play your cards right. You know, if you kind of, we've lost a lot of, some of the older, the lessons that come in a in a more rural rural or Sure. But we've, um, gained a lot of opportunity and security at the same time.

[00:06:07] Jordan Jonas: So the ability to combine those is pretty great if you can. 

[00:06:12] Travis Bader: Yeah. And you know, with the internet and everything, we've got the access to be able to learn all of these things that people in back in the day wouldn't, they wouldn't have that ability. Oh 

[00:06:22] Jordan Jonas: yeah. But, 

[00:06:23] Travis Bader: but the issue is, I think, is that we're so overloaded with information that it comes in, it comes out and people are kind of dilettante into what they kinda get into, and.

[00:06:34] Travis Bader: Absolutely. That's where somebody like yourself is a big value. Uh, people can go to your Instagram and check you out on hobo, jordo, we'll put, we'll put links into the, uh, the description here. But you're essentially an information concierge. They can view things through your eyes. All this info comes in and, but you're out there living it and you're doing it and they say, huh, it works for him.

[00:06:59] Travis Bader: Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot. 

[00:07:01] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, absolutely. Trying to reshuffle a little bit. So you do have a little bit more mental space in what is a Yeah, an information overload world. No time. You know, we're constantly distracted and that's very tangible, so, uh, you almost have to force your hand at times. I actually appreciate that about heading up in the wilderness and getting outdoors.

[00:07:25] Jordan Jonas: I somewhat dread when. Starling's gonna be universally, you know, available, but you almost have to force yourself into situations where you're disconnected and it, and then you can kind of delve more into your well undistracted mind. 

[00:07:39] Travis Bader: I mean, it's so tempting. I mean, you got this, I was on a, I was on a moose hunt in, um, in British Columbia here this last season.

[00:07:48] Travis Bader: Yeah. And, um, I'm, I'm trying to find something. I'm using the OnX and the eye hunter apps and this thing keeps popping up and it says, oh, do you wanna connect to satellite? For, uh, for text messages. I'm like, no, no, nope. And then my wife, she does it. She's like, I'm getting text messages. I could send a receive and uhoh.

[00:08:07] Travis Bader: I mean, like, it's, it's cool, but I like the fact that we disconnect and they're, you don't have that ability to actually read somebody because it, it takes away that easy option, that easy little lifeline back to something. Uh, absolutely. You 

[00:08:23] Jordan Jonas: almost have to force it too. It's like, uh, and it's funny because if you go without, you know, the modern technology or phone and you're up in the mountains for a week or two, you find, you just don't miss it at all.

[00:08:35] Jordan Jonas: It, you just, it's not even day one, you know, there's just no aspect of you that misses it. But when you have it, it just absorbs so much of your consciousness. So it's a odd thing I always find when I'm coming out of the woods. 'cause of course I have a running a little business and stuff and all this. I know I'm gonna have a lot of.

[00:08:53] Jordan Jonas: Message now. I just have feel that bit of dread, like, oh man, here comes service. 

[00:09:01] Travis Bader: Well, that, that's the tough part. I mean, running a business is my justification. I'm back on social media. Like I, I would never have social media if it wasn't for the business. 

[00:09:10] Jordan Jonas: Likewise. 

[00:09:11] Travis Bader: But then you're on, it's like, okay, I guess I gotta put a message out or we have to connect a little bit.

[00:09:15] Travis Bader: And I'd love, I love some of the connections that I've been able to make because of it. Mm-hmm. What I don't love is all the cool stuff that pops up and my A DHD kicks into Hyperdrive and I'm like, oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. And I start flipping through. 

[00:09:27] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. We're on the, we're on the vanguard of humans trying to figure out

[00:09:40] Jordan Jonas: it.

[00:09:44] Jordan Jonas: They got some talented computer scientists over there hacking our psychology. That's exactly 

[00:09:50] Travis Bader: what they do. Uh, so tell me about hobo Gido. How'd you come up with that? 

[00:09:55] Jordan Jonas: Oh, I, uh, you know, and I, I guess I must have been 18 or so and I, uh, I was just working at a salad dressing factory in Idaho and then, uh, my brother had ridden at one point had, you know, headed off and randomly started riding freight trains and, uh, like an old, old time hobo, he, and he actually loved it.

[00:10:18] Jordan Jonas: He loved the freedom of it and kind of the lack of, uh, schedule and responsibility. Any, any road trains were what would end up being seven or eight years where he just basically just lived out there and rode around like a, like a dang bum. But he 

[00:10:35] Travis Bader: as one does 

[00:10:37] Jordan Jonas: just no, but was. Uh, he was also, uh, unusually unusual for that, you know, realm sober.

[00:10:46] Jordan Jonas: So yeah, he was able to, uh, you know, just have a pretty rich experience and build a lot of relationships with people and all that. Anyway, he really liked it and at one point he's older than me and at one point he invited me, uh, to come with him. So quit my job and head out, headed out there. And, uh, I thought it was really neat.

[00:11:07] Jordan Jonas: I've thought about it since a lot because it, in hindsight, I wasn't conscious of it at the time, but it really felt like a sort of a fork in the road and a bit of a rite of passage for me because instead of just being stuck on the same routine that I, that most people do, it kind of put me out there, got me way outta my comfort zone and, you know, just having, having an adventure and new, new ways of thinking and doors that got opened and all that, and, you know, and eventually, hmm.

[00:11:39] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, it was a, it was a pretty awesome experience. I, that first night I was, it was in April, so it was still pretty cold. We were on the high line, it's called, uh, going through North Dakota and all that. And, uh, uh, got a big rainstorm and you know, those trains go 55 miles an hour when they're up there. And, uh, mm-hmm.

[00:11:59] Jordan Jonas: I was asleep. I dunno how I did. I must have been exhausted, but I slept through the rainstorm and I, I actually woke up to my brother, had shimmied along the train car 'cause he was on another one, shim along back to me and like, woke me up. He was like, oh dude, I thought you, I was hoping you, uh, you know, I thought you might have 

[00:12:17] Travis Bader: not 

[00:12:17] Jordan Jonas: woken up.

[00:12:18] Jordan Jonas: Which I don't know why I even thought that. But anyways, long story short. Absolutely drenched. I was in a puddle of water another while I probably would've drowned in my, got totally soaked and uh, uh, it was quite the, uh, introduction to hobo because, uh, you know, middle of the night, North Dakota wind blowing, I was drenched, didn't have anything dry and uh, I got pretty dang cold.

[00:12:42] Jordan Jonas: I remember, I've never been more, more acutely aware of how the sun can rise but not produce heat for a period of time, you know? Yeah. Just watching it like, oh, come on, Katie. It was, that was a pretty intense and funny, uh, introduction to the ho bowing. But then, yeah, I traveled across the country with them.

[00:13:03] Jordan Jonas: We ended up in Virginia. Did some, you know, we'd do some temporary work there and then went up the East Coast and back around and ended up back in, uh, you know, north Idaho ultimately. But that also was somewhat one of the first times I had. You know, spend a good amount of time alone, at least enough to get from Minneapolis to Spokane or what.

[00:13:26] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. So that was an interesting, you know, it was just a real, and it was a cool experience, particularly for a young man. Like, just see what's out there. 

[00:13:38] Travis Bader: I'd see. So did you ever run into, uh, the police trying to get you off or chase me around? Oh yeah. 

[00:13:43] Jordan Jonas: You know, you, that, that was actually, I might have been a day or two after I got soaked there.

[00:13:49] Jordan Jonas: We came into some train yard and, uh, we had kind of done it on a, you know, been, my brother invited me and I said yes, and we didn't really take time to. To get coached or anything by him. But, so we were coming into the train yard and he pulled up his little monocular. He's like, oh shoot, they're searching the train up there.

[00:14:08] Jordan Jonas: Like, we gotta get off. And so we all just started, you know, I don't know, when you're on the train, it doesn't feel like it's moving that fast that time. Oh, but it's moving. You gotta pro to properly dismount a train. You gotta climb down the ladder, run with it, get your feet moving, and then let go, and you can kind of run with the train and run off.

[00:14:26] Jordan Jonas: I didn't realize that. And we're in a hurry, and the police were searching the train. It was still moving, so I just jumped off feet, can't catch up on it, rolled down and got up and we, but we got away on that one. And then a lot of times they didn't care. You know, a lot of times you'd go up to a train worker and ask them where the train was headed and they'd, they'd advise you.

[00:14:47] Jordan Jonas: I'd, I'd say that was probably the norm. Although more often you just try not to get seen, just to avoid any issues. But, uh. But, uh, yeah, we went to spend a night in jail in DeKalb County, Indiana and 

[00:15:03] Travis Bader: Oh, yeah. 

[00:15:04] Jordan Jonas: You know, but that was an experience too. And, uh, what was that like? Well, that was funny too because I, uh, we were on the train and my brother woke up and in the night an al had hit the train, like a, an al had hit it and died and landed on him.

[00:15:22] Jordan Jonas: And we were joking about, oh man, that's gotta be some bad Native American old man. Oh yeah. That Al lands on his head, it's deaf. They were looking out the train and saw a bunch of workers and they were, you know, intently looking at the train. And one of them saw us and he like pointed to us and gave us the throat slit hand gesture.

[00:15:39] Jordan Jonas: And we're like, oh, that's definitely a bad omen. And so we started looking around and sure enough, once again, we could see the police searching the train up there and we thought, oh, should we jump off and run for the bushes or see what happens? And we're like, well, let's just see what happens. So we. Kind of hit under some cardboard boxes and rolled through, and funnily enough, we got past us.

[00:16:04] Jordan Jonas: Disappointed because it was canine training day, and so they had 12 canine units there and they were all excited that we might run. Glad we made the right choice. 

[00:16:15] Travis Bader: Yeah, it sounds like you did. 

[00:16:18] Jordan Jonas: But anyway, went to the, went to jail. It was really just a misdemeanor, you know, it's like a trespassing charge. It wasn't a huge deal, but, uh, spent a night there and, and, uh, yeah, it was a, it was, you know, definitely memorable.

[00:16:34] Jordan Jonas: I remember it was a funny little town because they would march you again, you're just there for a trespassing charge, but they would march you from the jail to the courthouse, which was several blocks away, but you know, in chains with your hands behind your back chain. Oh wow. Chain up leg March you through town you like.

[00:16:52] Jordan Jonas: Cool Luke. Yeah, totally funny experience. But, uh, yeah, so all kinds of little. Adventures doing that. And you know, every night you're out sleeping and you don't know where you're gonna get your meal and who you're gonna meet. And so, 

[00:17:10] Travis Bader: yeah. Well, what about the other writers always out 

[00:17:12] Jordan Jonas: in the world experiencing it, you know, like 

[00:17:14] Travis Bader: Yeah.

[00:17:15] Jordan Jonas: Interacting with different people. Uh, and yeah, it was, it was interesting. So. 

[00:17:21] Travis Bader: Well, what about the other hobos that you'd be riding with as with rugs and Temple House? Well, I typically 

[00:17:25] Jordan Jonas: rode with my, there, you know, with my brother and our other friend. And, uh, the three of us would usually ride rode together.

[00:17:34] Jordan Jonas: And so, uh, that kept it pretty simple. Of course. Um, you know, you'd run into other hobos occasionally, but we kind of tried to stick on our, you know, most, like I said, a lot, a lot of, we have a lot of friends who are hobos or were hobos at the time or whatever. Most of them had. Issues of different types.

[00:17:58] Jordan Jonas: And so, so it was a little easier to travel as a sober person, kind of with other sober people. And I only know a couple of them that were hobo of my brother and my friends. Gotcha. We kind stuck together and didn't, uh, but, uh, but yeah, we'd always, when we'd, every city you'd get to, it's kind of a small community, so you'd find out that, oh, DeVos down in, you know, in New York.

[00:18:22] Jordan Jonas: So we'd end up going and running into him, you know, finding people whenever you were in a certain town, you'd go to the park and reach out and see who was where and 

[00:18:33] Travis Bader: Okay. Do they still hang 

[00:18:34] Jordan Jonas: out? 

[00:18:34] Travis Bader: Do they still do the hobo sign thing like they did way back in the day? Oh yeah. I 

[00:18:37] Jordan Jonas: mean, they're around there.

[00:18:38] Jordan Jonas: They have little, well, this is all past, I mean, this is all before cell phones. I'm sure it's totally changed now, but there was a, a, a genius level hobo guy. I never met him. My brother knew him well, that, that. Kept track of every train yard in the country and, and the, you know, where trains would come into, where they would leave, where you could catch 'em best, where you could get your closest meal, where you could, uh, you know, the time the times trains typically came and which time would go and, you know, when it was leaving the yard, at what time where it would likely end up.

[00:19:13] Jordan Jonas: Anyway, he had it for the whole, the whole country. It must have been definitely a, some kind of a genius. And he'd print that out and give that to the people he really trusted. So that was, that's, I still have one of those little pamphlets he made, which is kind of cool. And No kidding. 

[00:19:29] Travis Bader: Whole little underground community.

[00:19:31] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:19:33] Travis Bader: Well, what got you over to, uh, Siberia? 

[00:19:37] Jordan Jonas: Uh, yeah, so I ended up, when apart, you know, we lived in Virginia a lot of the time there 'cause we could get work there and, uh. I was there. Long story short, I have another brother who's adopted, and when he became an adult, he found his biological family and he had a biological brother that was about my age.

[00:19:59] Jordan Jonas: And so when we all met, uh, that guy was just telling me about how they were gonna be building this orphanage in Russia and he was gonna go help, uh, um, some missionary guy over there, build it. And I, uh, I was like, oh, interesting. I hadn't honestly thought a lot about Russia, aside from my interest in history and stuff, but I, uh, never thought of going there, but I kind of on a whim or you know, like kind of unserious almost just was like, well Lord, if you want me to go over there and help out, gimme a sign or something.

[00:20:30] Jordan Jonas: And I, uh, when we headed up to New York and met some Russians and was like, oddly, oddly blown away, or, you know, I don't know, I was very heavily moved. Um. To, like, I just felt for them very deeply in a way that it all brought tears in my eyes, honestly, which was very strange in my experience. So I, I just took that as a answer to that prayer unexpectedly.

[00:20:57] Jordan Jonas: And I was like, all right, well, I'll just buy a ticket for a year and go and see what happens. And, uh, and so I did that. I ended up there, I was a few months later in Russia, you know, without much of a, I didn't have much of a roadmap. I just had a flash of clarity, uh, uh, in my life purpose at the time to, to go.

[00:21:17] Jordan Jonas: But beyond that, I didn't have much of anything. So I was in a little village in Siberia, and we worked on that little, uh, building where they were trying to build the orphanage and, you know, dug well by hand. You know, just doing all that kind of yeah. Work. And, um, the. The guy that I lived with was, was one of the cool, coolest people I know.

[00:21:41] Jordan Jonas: Uh, but he was an American and I wanted Russian man know Russian I live with, he called the neighboring village. That guy, uh, that Russian was just like, oh man, I need to, that'd be amazing. Send the American over. I need to go to work. My wife's in the hospital and I got these, you know, little kids that need to get watched.

[00:22:02] Jordan Jonas: Oh, there you, you go only 21 or 22. But I went over there. I'd never really messed with kids at all, but just drop me in the deep end of this, like Siberian village life, watching this guy's kids. We'd cut hay with a sigh and stack it in those piles like you see back in the twenties. Yeah. Like, like mother 

[00:22:20] Travis Bader: hand used to do in the old Richard Ski books.

[00:22:22] Travis Bader: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:22:22] Jordan Jonas: Absolutely. You know, make a, we'd make a, you wouldn't go buy a rake to rake up your hay, you'd make one outta wood, you know? Cool. So we had all these handmade tools and Yeah. And then, you know, plant potatoes, milk the cow every day. It was really interesting village life. Uh, and that the man I had been there with had been in prison years back and, uh.

[00:22:46] Jordan Jonas: Together with another, another guy. And that other guy was super funny, like covered in Russian prison tattoos and just a, a fiery dude. He'd always, but very Siberian, very northern. He'd, he'd always tell me how he had never seen a, never seen an apple on a tree. Like, you know. Wow. Like a man of the north for sure.

[00:23:09] Jordan Jonas: Wow. He would tell me stories about the one time he saw, you know, a, uh, like a minority on the train. I saw black guy once on the train. It was, uh, anyway, to him it was really interesting. I was like, man, sure. Grown up in this northern orphanage in Siberia. Had a rough life. Went to prison a couple times.

[00:23:33] Jordan Jonas: That's where those two guys met. And then he got out and he had kind of been a changed man, you know, they found God in prison. And, uh, so between those two families, I spent my first year there and. A third guy that had been in prison with was this fur trapper, you know, from, from the north. And he really cool guy.

[00:23:53] Jordan Jonas: He invited me up to live with him in fur Trap in the far north. So that kind of led me up that direction. And there I was in Northern Siberia, uh, uh, with this guy and he took me out in the woods. We, he kind of gave me a brief rundown on how to set the traps and how all this works. We went to the cabin, some of the cabins and stocked them with noodles.

[00:24:17] Jordan Jonas: But aside from that, all I really knew of the place was via topographical map. And so it was, uh, that was a really, uh, there, that was it. We, we got it all figured out. Got it all set up. It's winter time. Know about November, uh, or October, November, something like that. And then. He went off to a series of cabins in one direction and I went in another and I went, you know, we separated for like five weeks and just opened traps and checked them and lived off the land to supplement our noodles.

[00:24:48] Jordan Jonas: And it was like way in the deep end right away. Honestly, I didn't know what I was doing. And it was, it was, I learned a lot of great lessons fast, you know? 

[00:24:59] Travis Bader: Was it scary or was it exciting, or like, 

[00:25:02] Jordan Jonas: oh, it was exciting and it was like, you know, there's something about when you're alone that, and you have this thing that you need to do that's kind of out of your league a little bit.

[00:25:13] Jordan Jonas: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:14] Travis Bader: That is 

[00:25:14] Jordan Jonas: interesting in that even if it's too much or it's too hard or so, or you don't really know what you're doing, nobody's gonna fix that problem except you, uh, because you're alone and no amount of whining or anything will help. So you really get in this mode where you just make it happen and you make things happen and you're not, I wasn't thinking about.

[00:25:34] Jordan Jonas: Uh, no, I wasn't scared. I was, uh, always hoping to get something, you know, get a grouse or get some, sure, sure. There's a bit of pressure on you to produce something. Um, and I spent a lot of days, you know, I'd get turned around and lost and, uh, lots of extra days just trying to find the next trap in some trap line.

[00:25:59] Jordan Jonas: You know, maybe since the last time someone had been there, forest fires had gone through and, you know, who knows where all these things are. So I, uh, I fell through the ice in this river at one point and. You know, that's another hard lesson. You know, obviously now if I'm going across, you're, I'm a little more aware of how water and rivers and ice work, but you know, a lot of the places, it's Siberia.

[00:26:22] Jordan Jonas: You got feet of ice on the river, you don't really think about it. But of course, there's places where undercurrents are hitting the water and the ice is thin and you get caught. Did you get sucked under? Didn't think. No, I didn't. I just went in with my legs and hopped out. But of course then I was in the middle of Siberia soaking with, with, uh, but that was the best case scenario.

[00:26:44] Jordan Jonas: But I, I made, I got, I made it out, got back to the cabin, it warmed up my leg was, you know, burning on, you know, when as it woke up, it kind of got very cold and died and then came to life. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get frostbite on that or no? I don't think so. It was nothing per, nothing permanent. Yeah. It was the.

[00:27:05] Jordan Jonas: Uh, yeah. 

[00:27:06] Travis Bader: Water's scary. Water can, uh, well, water's 

[00:27:08] Jordan Jonas: scary and, and yeah, there's just margins of air small. Mm-hmm. Uh, I got into quite a few situations that were, were just tough and I, I thought it was, it was, it was good. You know, you're by yourself. I thought it was interesting mentally also. That was my first time on such an extended period of time where you realize how much pops into your head when you're alone for a long period of time, and how much unpredictable, you know, any skeletons in your closet are gonna rear their head, or any conversations you should have had that you didn't have are gonna come up.

[00:27:43] Jordan Jonas: And, uh, and when you're alone, those fester in your head, but you have no way of really settling them because you're just by yourself and there's nobody to talk to about it or anything. So, so they just roll around in your head. And I'm, I, I thought that was interesting. I was. Fortunate enough there to have like a pen and paper.

[00:28:02] Jordan Jonas: So writing helped, you know? Right. And then I was like, okay, when I get outta here, I'm gonna, you know, get ahold of that guy and tell him, you know, make things right and stuff like that. But, 

[00:28:12] Travis Bader: so, uh, as you write these things down, and that's a really cool tip because that's a huge part of why I want to talk to you is about the, the mental aspect that you display and mm-hmm.

[00:28:22] Travis Bader: But, uh, writing these things down, they probably seem very important in the moment when you're out there and very pertinent. And when you come back into civilization and you look back at this, did it hold the same weight? 

[00:28:36] Jordan Jonas: Definitely didn't, I would say, because it is, you know, once you get back into civilization, there's just so much more distraction and so much, you know, when you're out there again, those things will just roll around in your head without really a way to resolve them.

[00:28:51] Jordan Jonas: And so, or even share the mental burden of them. So you, so it really just. Occupies a large percentage of your mind when, uh, writing, again, writing it down helps just so you can Oh yeah, I'll handle that later. Okay. Write it down. I like that. But then once I got out, I would, I did find that on a lot of that stuff I would follow up on, but not on everything.

[00:29:14] Jordan Jonas: 'cause then once I was out, it didn't affect me as much, you know? But I, I would say for someone I was advising, like, say you were gonna get on that alone show, or something like that. Mm-hmm. I would definitely advise you to, to spend some time ahead of time by yourself long enough to see what types of things might pop up.

[00:29:32] Jordan Jonas: I mean, maybe it's obvious, maybe you know what, but you know, ends are untied in your life, but there's a good chance that you don't. Right. And if you don't create the space to find out what those are and then resolve 'em and then head out on that, in that, into that experience, um, with all those ducks in a row as much as they can be, because, uh.

[00:29:53] Jordan Jonas: It'll really bo eat you up out there if you have serious stuff to work through. It's a terrible place to go work through issues, you know? And, and on some degree, to some degree it's a great place to recognize what they're but, but hard, 

[00:30:07] Travis Bader: hard to resolve. You can see 'em. It's like having, having an enemy that you just can't punch.

[00:30:12] Travis Bader: You can't connect. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, so good friend of mine, um, actually he's the one who brought you on on my radar. He is like, you gotta talk with this guy. He's awesome. Right? Oh, right. But he was, 

[00:30:25] Jordan Jonas: tell him, hi, 

[00:30:27] Travis Bader: I will, but I'm gonna leave his name out here. Because, um, he was talking about, um, some difficulties that he was having.

[00:30:34] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. And I was like, you know, for me, I'll go out into the bush, I'll get away from cells, I'll try and reduce the distractions that I have. Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:43] Jordan Jonas: And 

[00:30:43] Travis Bader: that's my way of kind of, um, kind of decompressing and bringing things into a bit more of a focal point of what's actually important. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He says, well, I.

[00:30:52] Travis Bader: I tried that and I was out there for 45 minutes, a couple hours, and I hated it. All these thoughts are coming and all these things. It's like, yeah, I had to get back into self service and I had no Interesting. Yeah. And I said, well, that's because it's masking when you, when you're with all the people and all the stuff around you, it creates a level of noise that can now kind of mask whatever that underlying thing is.

[00:31:18] Travis Bader: And I suggested maybe find a way to push through, but, um, mm-hmm. There's a, a question that's sort of related that comes up. It says, I'd love to know more about his thought process and self-talk while he is on the show. He's obviously very skilled and knowledgeable, but what really stood out for me is his calm, almost zen-like energy throughout the whole process.

[00:31:39] Travis Bader: Is this a byproduct of skills and knowledge? Is it a character trait or is it a conscious decision he had to make every day to survive? 

[00:31:49] Jordan Jonas: And to some degree it's all three. So like I, I won't deny that I have a, um, personality that is a bit, I don't have an anxious personality per se. 

[00:32:01] Travis Bader: Um, you don't have, or you do have?

[00:32:02] Travis Bader: I don't. 

[00:32:03] Jordan Jonas: Okay. So like, I will say there's some degree, which, you know, it's a, one of the, my natural state of being, but that's, it's definitely a product of environment also because, um, and lessons I've learned in life over the years. So I will say, uh, alone was interesting because for me, and it's kind of, it probably comes across on the show, although they, I obviously tried to emphasize it a bit, but for me it really wasn't hard.

[00:32:32] Jordan Jonas: It wasn't that hard mentally. And I caught myself out there asking that same question. I was like, like, why not? Like, I, I'm thankful that it's not, but I'm also aware that. This would usually be a very difficult situation mentally. And so I thought a lot about what had prepared me to do well in that situation.

[00:32:52] Jordan Jonas: And uh, I mean, of the half of that, a lot of that is like what I need to write a book on, because it's a lot, the answer answer's very large, you know, you know, there's a lot to it, but I can, um, get to some of the points here. Uh, the, the first one is, is perspective, I would say. So what allowed me that perspective, and I, and I know I've told this story on Lex Friedman and Joe Rogan and stuff, but it, it, it was, it's just being intimately aware of my own of history in general.

[00:33:31] Jordan Jonas: So like, I did a lot of reading when I was young about people and wars and memoirs and stuff, and it, it gave me a, as a young person, even a. A perspective on my own trials at the time that was, uh, that just made them not seem so big. And then, uh, in my own family history, you know, they'd all been through the Armenian genocide.

[00:33:53] Jordan Jonas: My grandparents and both had terrible stories, which I had the benefit of knowing, like I got 'em passed down to me. But both my grandparents were orphaned and, you know, watched their families die, killed in, in this horrible scenario. And, uh, to make a long story short, it was interesting as a young person growing up, I didn't know 'em because they died before my, I was alive.

[00:34:19] Jordan Jonas: But I got, there's a few old grainy videos and of course I knew all my aunts and uncles that they raised and the old videos of them, it was like such joyful. They were cooking up a rabbit in France and there are just so much joy around the table. And then they raised these 11 kids who were my dad, aunts and uncles that were just the.

[00:34:38] Jordan Jonas: You know, it was a such a bright part of my childhood where those family reunions and getting together and the laughter and the, and the togetherness, and I always thought it was, you know, and later in my life it dawned on me how remarkable it was that these people who went through such trials like that would pale, you know, anything that we're going through in comparison.

[00:35:00] Jordan Jonas: Uh, and they came through with joy that was deep, that they transferred to their children, that they, like if I didn't grow up with a bunch of, uh, ingrained animosity for the people that did this to us or anything like that, you know, they, they, they built a new life. They fostered family, um, to a very high degree.

[00:35:26] Jordan Jonas: And they, and, and then I came along just one generation later of the beneficiary of their ability to go through that suffering and coming out with a positive. And coming out, come out as creators, not as victims or whatever. And I thought that was, uh, I thought I think about that a lot. You know, that's something that goes with me when I'm in a, on a TV show on alone.

[00:35:49] Jordan Jonas: It's like, what can I wind about out here? That's, you know, and hopefully I, that's a good up to their legacy in the same way. Well, I'll keep it short too, but my, my dad, oh, don't worry about it. Oh, yeah. Well, my, my dad went through a similarly difficult, you know, final 10 years to his life where he lost his legs.

[00:36:07] Jordan Jonas: You know, he had diabetes, he had grew up as a child with diabetes, he had polio, so he was physically unable to maintain his health.

[00:36:20] Jordan Jonas: Uh, but he, he being, you know, the product of his parents and who, he was an immigrant to the us, all he wanted to do was create a life for his kids and, you know, just be a family man and provide, and, which he did a great job of until he was about 50 and, and he got a sore on his foot that wouldn't heal, you know, as it happens.

[00:36:39] Jordan Jonas: And then, uh, he spent four or five years just trying to get this sore to, he couldn't walk on. And then it finally healed. And, uh, we went out, we were splitting firewood, I remember. And we had the log splitter and he was just like, man, Jordan, it's just so nice to be outside again and be out. And he crushed his foot in the log splitter.

[00:37:02] Jordan Jonas: Oh. So, so then they just amputated his leg. But, you know, once that happens, your health can really degrade and eventually, and 

[00:37:09] Travis Bader: mentally too, rather. 

[00:37:10] Jordan Jonas: And in the meantime, my mom had to go back to work because she was a stay at home mom, but, uh, somebody needed to provide. And so she was going back to school to become a nurse.

[00:37:21] Jordan Jonas: And dad had to watch as he felt like a failure. And mom had to pick up the slack. And we were, you know, I remember him crying when we had to go to the food bank and all that. Mm-hmm. And, you know, he just felt like a major failure. Mm-hmm. But it was interesting because I got to watch his growth through the years.

[00:37:36] Jordan Jonas: And then, uh, for us, he never felt like a failure. You know, he never seemed like a failure. We saw how he dealt with it. And for us, from my perspective, I was constantly. You know, I was watching how he was dealing with the suffering and the bad lot he kind of had in life. And, uh, and what I saw is him evolve from, you know, obviously there were very hard times early on especially, but then he worked through and he found that his self-worth wasn't tied up necessarily and what he could do and what he could produce and all the things that you and I probably tied up in he, uh, but he could see that, what I could see was, is that his value to me was in like, he was such an encourager and he was such an example of how to face loss and trial, but maintain a joyful spirit.

[00:38:25] Jordan Jonas: You know, every morning I'd hear him at night in pain, like rolling around and like, ah, then the morning I'd get up and, Hey Jordan, just be really happy and wanna talk and wanna read. Anyway, very positive all the way until he died. And, uh, and it was. It was an interesting, you know, another very valuable lesson in how to face trials.

[00:38:48] Jordan Jonas: And, and, and that always stuck with me, those two, lesson three, I guess the reading I had done of like Gulag Arch Capella stuff, my family history, and my dad gave me a trifecta of perspective through which to filter my own experience. That just allowed me to deal with suffering with a little more, I think more of a level head on my, and a little less focus on my own personal experience, being able to couch it into a broader, you know, a broader story.

[00:39:18] Jordan Jonas: Um, and then, so that would be one that would be like, uh, one leg of the 

[00:39:26] Travis Bader: Okay. Yeah. 

[00:39:26] Jordan Jonas: Of the, uh, of resilience. Then I guess you would need, you know, another part of it, let me think. Um,

[00:39:37] Jordan Jonas: I gotta organize my own thoughts here. Um, well, what we, oh, you know, I guess another obvious one that kinda is, is just having solid relationships in your life. So because, um, again, it was something you made very clear when you're at a, in a, in a, on a loan or something like that. All my trips to Russia, I spent most of my twenties in Russia, but of course I was a young dude.

[00:40:04] Jordan Jonas: I had, you know, wanted to pursue relationships with this girl or that girl, or I had friends I wanted to spend time with or this and that. And, uh, but I, and then I, but I also had my core people who, uh, my family, my really close friends. And it was interesting to find that after I would leave to Russia and be gone for a year, I could come back and boy, those people were still there, you know, they still, and we still cared about each other.

[00:40:31] Jordan Jonas: And now my being gone could bring something back and add value to their lives too. And. And being able to over prac, by practicing that muscle, exercising that muscle, I was able to, uh, grow in my ability to trust those relationships, to maintain through, you know, through even time and distance and stuff like that.

[00:40:56] Jordan Jonas: And, uh, realized that what I would go through would add value to them and vice versa. And, and we can all, you know, we don't have to stick to, you know, be necessarily, I love that physically close like that our, our love in some way would bind us together. And I could trust that. And because I had strong relationships, particularly like on alone, my marriage was good, so I didn't have to be out there and stress about that.

[00:41:20] Jordan Jonas: And so, uh, so that's good. I then I think there's like a little bit more practical, um, aspects of it, which is that throughout my life I had just. Often been outside of my comfort zone. You know, we've touched on it a little bit already, but from riding freight trains to living in a foreign country, not knowing the language, to learning the language, and then being in a completely varied foreign cultures and having to adapt and, you know, and often just over my head, but recognizing, uh, that I could be comfortable living and kind of what I would call the edge of my aptitude.

[00:42:03] Jordan Jonas: Like I was always pushing what I was comfortable doing and always, not even consciously sometimes, but just I would find myself in situations where like, gosh, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'll figure it out. Obviously in doing so, you also become really familiar with failure, and it does because you're constantly screwing up and iterating and learning and, uh, in doing so, I just think by being on the edge of your abilities a lot, failing a lot, you become.

[00:42:33] Jordan Jonas: More resilient so that when you do get in those uncomfortable situations, you don't feel flustered. You're kind of like, oh, totally. You know what it's like you, you're totally kind of used to it. And then I always think of the example when I missed the moose on alone. You know, because later, and I'm on this show and I have, I set up for the listeners that don't know, and I set up this big opportunity of weeks of, of calling and strategizing to create some opportunity outta Moon.

[00:43:00] Jordan Jonas: And I got one and I missed, and I remember the thing watching, walking away. And just for one, I was like, well, that was awesome. Like, what a dinosaur. And like, darn it, that's, I cannot believe I missed both those emotions come combined. But then at the same time, I wasn't that I, I could not get, I could be unclustered in that moment and instead of being mad about how I screwed up and my failure, I could immediately just switch into, oh, there goes the moose.

[00:43:30] Jordan Jonas: Like how can I. Learn from, you know, what its behavior is, uh, to make this happen again. You know, like, because I, it just made me more determined to create another interaction, and right after I missed it, I was able to just stay focused, watch it, keep a level head, follow where it went, and come up with another plan, you know, without, without being despondent over, over 

[00:43:56] Travis Bader: what, what are they saying?

[00:43:56] Travis Bader: And so I 

[00:43:57] Jordan Jonas: think 

[00:43:58] Travis Bader: there's winners. There's winners and there's learners, 

[00:44:00] Jordan Jonas: right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I, I think just having a, a lifetime of experience that had me outside of my comfort zone and kind of screwing up and being uncomfortable, being okay with that Mm. Help build some of that resilience that your buddy was asking about.

[00:44:17] Jordan Jonas: And, and I, uh, so yeah, I don't know. It'd be interesting. It'd be interesting for him to go out, I think. I think people need to. I don't think not creating that mental space because it's too hard is an option. Like, you know, like I think, I think you almost have to, you almost have to go through it. I would recommend you go out and if there's things really nagging him, write it down.

[00:44:44] Jordan Jonas: Make sure that you're gonna, like, when you come out, try to be determined to follow up on, on what those things are, but then write 'em down and, and do your best to let 'em, let 'em slide because you know, we'll I'll, I'll, I will, I will work through this issue, but I can't up here right now because, you know, right.

[00:45:05] Jordan Jonas: So I, I'm try to practice that muscle of recognizing what you can and what you can't affect and not being too bothered by what you can't affect. Putting in its right place. And when you can, then you need to act on that. So I think in his situation, writing it down would be helpful. And then, yeah, I spend more time up there because it is important to have those resets.

[00:45:26] Jordan Jonas: We're so, we are so unusually distracted these days that I don't think just maintaining that way of life is ideal. And it's not. It's the, it's the norm. Like we're all like that. You and I both, uh, are constantly bombarded by information and phones and this and that, and that's okay, but you'd have to create some space that's not, that that's not scheduled and that's not pressured and that's not distracted.

[00:45:52] Jordan Jonas: And so I think your advice

[00:45:58] Jordan Jonas: pops. To come out of the woods and confront what those things are. Yeah. 

[00:46:05] Travis Bader: I, I think that's a, uh, a brilliant addition to the advice that I gave him there, and the points that you bring up. I, I really like the fail fast, fail hard fail often. Mm-hmm. Because then you learn that failure is not fatal. Success isn't final failure isn't fatal.

[00:46:22] Travis Bader: And you can get used to that. And I know people who crave failure, they're high performers, high achievers, because then they know this is a stepping stone to success. I know if I'm failing, I'm pushing myself and I'm learning. So. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And the other one that, uh, if I'm picking up what you're saying, there is a third party perspective and Right.

[00:46:45] Travis Bader: What I mean by that is, um. Uh, I'll give you a couple examples. Uh, one, uh, when my wife was in labor with our first child, our daughter mm-hmm. Uhhuh, and it was 27 hours of labor and yeah, long time. That's an 

[00:46:59] Jordan Jonas: intense experience. Totally. 

[00:47:01] Travis Bader: Like, and lots of pain and everything else. And, um. And she's like, I don't know if I can do this and blah, blah, blah.

[00:47:07] Travis Bader: You know, all the thoughts that go through through somebody's head, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, doing, doing the natural birth thing and I says, well, yep. How would future you like to look back on you and how you perform now? How would your grandmother, uh, have dealt with something like this? 'cause she admires your grandmother very much.

[00:47:24] Travis Bader: Right, right, right. Um, how do you wanna look back on how you dealt with this in, in the moment today? And although some people have said that, I'm lucky I didn't get my head smacked off at that point. Um, uh, in the moment, in the time that was the right advice for her. And it was like a light bulb just flicked and all of a sudden it was like all new energy, all new perspective.

[00:47:45] Travis Bader: Huh. It was the same situation. Mm-hmm. But she's like, okay, it's one day of my life. Right. Or it's one month of my life, or it's one year of my life. Right. How do I wanna look back on this one? 

[00:47:55] Jordan Jonas: Right, 

[00:47:56] Travis Bader: right. And and the other one is, um. Uh, and then, then I kind of got out there, another fellow I, I haven't heard from him in years, and, uh, super funny guy, uh, had a problem with alcohol and mm-hmm.

[00:48:09] Travis Bader: And, uh, went, went in the program. Mm-hmm. And I got this text, uh, and a couple weeks ago and, uh, uh, saying, I don't know why I am the way I am and my, my addiction has, uh, taken me and getting into it. And I, and I see just through statement analysis and looking at how, right? Like, what do you mean my addiction?

[00:48:28] Travis Bader: I have an addictive personality, but it's not my addiction. I don't have to own this thing Uhhuh. But, but, uh, so I'm talking with them and, um, I said, you know, there's people, I care about you. There's people want you around. And he's like, well, you know, like, like who my, um, my, my family, they can take care of herself.

[00:48:45] Travis Bader: My daughter, she's off to university. She can take care of herself. And I said, well, you don't think mental health and addiction is not a hereditary thing. You don't think at some point she might want to be able to look back. She might be fine right now. Oh yeah. Yeah. But when she does experience difficulties, what example are you giving her as a role model to be able to deal with these difficulties?

[00:49:07] Travis Bader: If you call it quits? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you take, if you take the easy way out, and that's that, uh, perspective that your father was able to give you. He was going through difficult time. Mm-hmm. But he approached it with such enthusiasm and, uh, humility and humor. Yeah. You 

[00:49:24] Jordan Jonas: can find purpose in that trial, you know, and that his purpose is.

[00:49:28] Jordan Jonas: Could be to like, well, I'm gonna confront this addiction and this depression, right? And like maybe show my daughter how to, should she ever find herself in the same position, you know, like, right. 

[00:49:39] Travis Bader: He says, oh, I want to be strong like you, or I want to be this like somebody else. I said, well, you don't say I want to have strong muscles and then never go to the gym.

[00:49:48] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. You need to present yourself with those weights and challenges in order to develop the muscles you want to. And the same thing is in life, the same ability to be strong mentally and emotionally. It happens because of these challenges that were presented. And this is what I, I mentioned to him, I said, you're given an awesome opportunity right now.

[00:50:08] Travis Bader: You're given something a lot of people don't get the challenge to do and mm-hmm. How you deal with it now is gonna frame how you are in the future and the people who love you and look up to you. Good 

[00:50:19] Jordan Jonas: ripple for generations. Who knows. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like yours, right? Yeah, exactly. It's, it's crazy.

[00:50:25] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. 

[00:50:27] Travis Bader: Um, so, okay, so you're on a loan. Uh, you're allowed I think 10 items, is it? Yeah, 10 items. Um, what, uh, what did you bring that you thought was the most important and what would you probably not bring again? 

[00:50:44] Jordan Jonas: Uh, it's hard to say what's the most important, because you definitely. But if you're gonna be out there long term, I don't know, I, the, the natives I was with, you know, in Siberia would always say, the one thing you need to survive is an ax.

[00:50:58] Jordan Jonas: And that's, you know, somewhat true, I'd say. 'cause with an ax, I felt like if I had an ax, I could have a chance. It's the very small chance. But, you 

[00:51:08] Travis Bader: know, 

[00:51:09] Jordan Jonas: you could, that my plan A on that show is actually I wanted to bear, the natives had showed me this cool deadfall for a bear, and I thought, oh, that'd sweet.

[00:51:19] Jordan Jonas: And you know, that's something I could build with just an ax and build a deadfall and then, uh, smash a bear. I thought that'd be sweet, but Oh wow. We weren't allowed to bait traps. Right, 

[00:51:30] Travis Bader: right. Yeah. Some provinces you can, but that said, 

[00:51:33] Jordan Jonas: you know, having that ax does give you the ability to procure food, to build shelter, to find, you know, water in the winter, whatever, you know, it gives you a lot of options so you can build fire with it.

[00:51:50] Jordan Jonas: The one item that I almost felt like I didn't need was the saw. I took it because I thought it'd be a calorie saver and be nice. It was very helpful, you know, in building, but you can do everything with an X that you can do with a saw, basically, particularly in soft wood forest. But the, uh, I felt like it was a little superfluous.

[00:52:09] Jordan Jonas: Had I known my location, what it would be ahead of time, I would've swapped it for a gill net. 

[00:52:16] Travis Bader: But, 

[00:52:17] Jordan Jonas: uh, I made a gill net, but you know, I could've then had two, which would've only just been better. So in hindsight, that's what I'd have done, but. Zach's was ha I mean, the saw was still handy and stuff, but Uhhuh, it was a little bit unnecessary.

[00:52:31] Jordan Jonas: So I would've pro, I would've been my item swap had I had hindsight. Yeah, everything else was very useful, uh, that I took, so I wouldn't mm-hmm. And I kinda liked that show format because having a few items versus just not having anything you picture, like naked and afraid or something. It's just not a realistic way to, to survive in the woods.

[00:52:55] Jordan Jonas: You know, I, it's like 0% chance, basically, 

[00:52:58] Travis Bader: yeah, 

[00:52:59] Jordan Jonas: maybe you're eating coconuts or whatever, but the, uh, to have a little legitimate way of making, of wilderness living and not just dying slowly. Uh, there's a, you know, you need a few items. And so I think that alone kind of hit on that balance pretty well, which, which mimicked a bit what I had been doing in Siberia and stuff.

[00:53:22] Jordan Jonas: So it. Perfect for that situation, 

[00:53:26] Travis Bader: I guess. Yeah. Well, Nikki, she made it to day 52 before she was medically extracted. Medically. Yeah. Yeah. And she says she was in shock 'cause she felt like she was in the best shape of her life. Things are going great. Like, what do you mean you're pulling me off? I put all this time and energy.

[00:53:41] Travis Bader: She, um, that's terrible. But she was talking about the medical checks that get done. Yeah. Were there any points where your medical checks were looking a little touch and go? 

[00:53:53] Jordan Jonas: No. Like, so I actually left the show weighing what I do now, just my totally normal weight. Awesome. But I'll tell you what, I'm a thin dude and I, and, uh, I was worried that they might be worried that I was thin because, uh, it's a, it's kind of a long story, but I, but, um.

[00:54:16] Jordan Jonas: I thought basically that they thought I was, I thought they thought I was too thin. And so I was super stressed about them. And I also, uh, you know, I, I gotta be honest with you, I didn't know if the show was rigged or they wanted somebody to win and this and that. And so I was like, man, what if they tried to use that as an excuse to pull me off even just because I'm skinny, but yeah, but I'm this way normally.

[00:54:40] Jordan Jonas: So anyway, those were all thoughts I had. I got, gotta admit, but, um, I was never in any danger, honestly. When the show ended, I, like I said, I weighed what I do now. I might've even been slight. I think I got, I was 1 68 when I weighed myself, and that's like right, what I usually am. Mm. So interestingly enough, um, but I had lost 25 pounds because I just put on a bunch of blubber before I went out, you know, eating smart 

[00:55:09] Travis Bader: move 

[00:55:10] Jordan Jonas: olive oil and all that.

[00:55:11] Jordan Jonas: So, uh. So that's why I thought, man, I lost that 25 pounds. They might be worried about me, but, um, they shouldn't be. And so I was always stressed when they came on med checks, but only for that reason. Um, and then I was, I guess, yeah. Was that the question? Sorry, I lost track of the question. Yeah, well, yeah.

[00:55:32] Jordan Jonas: Anyway, it was a, it was a, i, I, I empathized for her being pulled, feeling like she was in good health because, uh, that could, I, I was stressed. They would do that to me. You know, like I, me and I didn't have any, I didn't know how I could prove I wasn't, I, I remember telling them like, what you, me to do jumping jacks or.

[00:55:55] Jordan Jonas: Totally fine. I swear I'm just skinny. 

[00:55:59] Travis Bader: Well, you, you, I believe it was what, half a million that you end up winning. And you're right. If I remember reading that, you said your goal was to do the show so that you can spend more time with your family, your in a financial place. Yeah. You can spend more time with your kids to, to help raise 'em, right?

[00:56:16] Travis Bader: Oh, yeah. And 

[00:56:18] Jordan Jonas: oh yeah. It's been good. It's been amazing for that. It's been a huge blessing. Honestly, the most tangible, positive from the show. I have met a lot of really cool people, but it has allowed me to shift a bit from instruction in the trades and stuff like that, and into, uh, take taking people out in the wilderness and, and that's more of a, it's more of a seasonal job.

[00:56:43] Jordan Jonas: And so then I also have a downtime where I can really focus on spending time with the family. I have the. Infrastructure and the living in the right place to be able to take the kids out in the mountains too and enjoy that with them and really help. Mm-hmm. You know, it's really helped, it really helped me kind of, for one, it was one of the, one of the many experiences of life that that helped me gimme great clarity on what my priorities are in life.

[00:57:13] Jordan Jonas: But it was a very important one in being able to like, kind of bring that to a place that, man, I I'm, I can only be thankful for where I'm at right now. And sometimes, yeah, I don't deserve it, but we got, got a good thing going. Hallelujah. I say 

[00:57:32] Travis Bader: don't deserve it. I don't know that. I don't well know. 

[00:57:35] Jordan Jonas: I only, again, it's funny because I always have the background, I always have it running in the background that it doesn't have to be this way.

[00:57:42] Jordan Jonas: Like I, you know, look at my grandparents. They were as wonderful of people, I'm sure, and doing their best in it. And their life was very difficult. And so all I can do is like focus on when that's not the case and in what aspects that's not the case. And be really thankful for it. So I'm honestly like, consciously aware of, I don't take for granted the fact that I do have my health right now.

[00:58:06] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. That 

[00:58:06] Travis Bader: can't 

[00:58:06] Jordan Jonas: go up there. I can understand there's a lot of people that can't, I, I don't take for granted the fact that I have a job that I love. It's like that's not given to everybody. Mm-hmm. And none of that stuff comes. None of it is, that's why I say I don't think it's necessarily deserved because, uh, it's just, there is a element to which it's not.

[00:58:27] Jordan Jonas: But I, but you know, but of course hard work and stuff. Maximizes your odds, but it just, it's just, I'm, I'm thankful for it. All I can do is just be thankful. 

[00:58:35] Travis Bader: Yeah. Isn't it funny the harder that we work, the luckier we get, just funny. Exactly. 

[00:58:39] Jordan Jonas: You play a role in making your own luck For sure. Yeah. You know, 

[00:58:43] Travis Bader: when I, when I prepare for a podcast like this, I'll go through and I'll try and find, uh, background on an individual, but.

[00:58:51] Travis Bader: I have sort of a rough outline because I really like to see where the conversation takes us, Uhhuh Uhhuh, and so I've got a DHD and I can go in a whole bunch of different directions, but I also kind of pick up on little weird things as we go through too, Uhhuh, and I'm just kind of vocalizing my process at the moment because if I'm to play an armchair detective and do statement analysis off of a few things that you were saying when we first started talking.

[00:59:15] Travis Bader: Yeah. There was a thread of two themes that you brought up on more than one occasion, and one was alright, one was sobriety and one was faith. Oh yeah. So what, what that about? Am I on base for? Uh, oh, yeah. 

[00:59:30] Jordan Jonas: Maybe it's fine. Well, yeah, I guess sobriety, uh, personally I have, I don't have an addictive personality and haven't struggled it.

[00:59:38] Jordan Jonas: Like my dad wasn't an alcoholic. I didn't, I didn't have that struggle, uh, running in the background. But in my adult life, it's been a huge part of my experience given the fact that, uh. You know, particularly with my traveling friends. Mm. And then on a, on another note in Russia, and particularly amongst the native populations over there, it's just 

[01:00:02] Travis Bader: through 

[01:00:02] Jordan Jonas: the roof and it's people you really care about and love.

[01:00:05] Jordan Jonas: And you can see 'em in the woods, you know, as when they're nomadic and they're out in the forest, they're people you would meet and think of as like happy people. Uh, but when they get in the village or all their relatives who aren't reindeer herders that live in the village, it's just the, it's terrible.

[01:00:25] Jordan Jonas: You know, the amount of the, the death by murder, suicide or accident is 30% amongst those people. They're like, it's, it's a mind blowing and it's like a lot of our friends, every time I call back, I'm a little bit nervous about who's gonna be alive and what's gonna happened. So there was a lot of, you know, stark.

[01:00:47] Jordan Jonas: Not only tragedies, but also just missed opportunities. And, you know, there's a lot of that that is I've been involved with over my life. So I guess maybe that, that's why that pops into mind. Um, mm. And faith has just been a, it's just an awesome, I mean, it's just a, it's interesting thing, it's a huge part of my life, but I am fascinated by how it evolved over the course of a person's life.

[01:01:11] Jordan Jonas: You know, you, you get a, you get a, you get a certain set of principles and beliefs passed down to you from your parents, and then those have to become your own through the course of, you know, trial and tribulation and all that. Mm-hmm. And then you end up, you know, on, on this. Yeah. So. Interested to talk about with, with the understanding that I am just a person on a journey, you know, trying to figure it out.

[01:01:42] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. 

[01:01:43] Travis Bader: Are you a religious fellow? Is your family religious? Yeah, I 

[01:01:46] Jordan Jonas: love, I grew up in a Christian home. That's why even my, you know, whole family history is that they were, they weren't actually Armenians, they were, uh, what's called Assyrians. It's a Christian minority group. They're the last people that speak Aramaic, you know, that was Oh, cool.

[01:02:02] Jordan Jonas: What spoke. So they were the kind of the indigenous people to the Middle East before kind of the Arab, the influx. And, uh, and there's still exists, there's still some of them, very few left now because of the generations of, of, you know, violence and all that. So, uh, but yeah, so my family history is Christian and then I grew up a Christian, and then I, but I remember, you know, your faith gets tied to a lot of random things when you're, you know, a lot of things when you're young.

[01:02:33] Jordan Jonas: I, I think for me. When I was around the time when I felt that odd flash of purpose and went to Russia, there was a, uh, uh, I felt like that was kind of a dark time because I've, I remember I always kind of, I'd always put my face on a bit of a pedestal. I always took it seriously. But, um, but I also found that I was in a very dark place and it like, you know, if I would pray, it just felt like nothing if I, I didn't have any, uh, it just felt very dark.

[01:03:07] Jordan Jonas: And I remember, uh, I was like, of course the, maybe my faith had been tied up with too much, um, of what I had a hard time believing, like the Earth 6,000. Sure. Sure. And so you gotta like, untie all that stuff and figure out where the weed is, where the chaff is. And I think right early in the process.

[01:03:31] Jordan Jonas: 20-year-old. I just felt like I was in a dark place. But I, uh, and I remember reading this verse that said, for those of you who are, it was I, for those of you who are in the, who are righteous and yet in the darkness, just continue. It was basically like that was the summary of it. Yeah. Uh, and I thought it was interesting at the time because like, oh, there are people who try, try to follow the path of righteousness, but are in the darkness.

[01:03:58] Jordan Jonas: And I guess I'll just continue and see what happens. And I kind of, after that conscious decision to continue and to act and live out the faith, even if I didn't feel it, I, uh, was when I got that little call to go to Russia and then, which I was really profound for me at the time, and I. So there, and I was heading on this trans Liberian railway out to this Siberian village and I was like, what am I, I don't even have like faith, like I'm just doing this.

[01:04:29] Jordan Jonas: I got like a little spurt of something, but I don't have, and I just remember on that, on the trans Liberian railway, I just like, Lord, if I had just one thing I could ask for just someday give me faith, like I'm gonna live like I, like, I believe because I, I'm gonna guide my life. I'm mean, I kept it really simple.

[01:04:47] Jordan Jonas: Like I didn't care, you know, I was the ultimate, um, summary of my faith was, you know, love the Lord your God, love your neighbor as yourself. And I was like, if I can just keep it, that I don't have to worry about the Earth's age, it might stage, I 

[01:05:01] Travis Bader: don't have to figure out all that. So you're basically faking it till you make it.

[01:05:05] Travis Bader: Is that 

[01:05:05] Jordan Jonas: what Yeah, exactly. So I'm just gonna worry about what the meat and bones of the, you know, the meat is of the, of, of this. And I've prayed that prayer, going to Russia and it was funny 'cause on the way out, I, uh. After that first year, and it was, it was a really conscious year of me trying to act purposefully out of love and, you know, go visit the old lady in her house and go, you know, dig that well or do it, you know, just hands on and on the way back on the train, I had forgotten about that prayer, but I, I remembered it on my train ride back and I thought, oh my gosh.

[01:05:43] Jordan Jonas: It, that was, that prayer really answered like, unbelievable. And it was like, oh, kind blew me away. I was like, oh, I actually do have faith now. I don't know how that happened over the course of the last year, but, but, you know, and then over the, over my whole life it's just evolved and, and changed. But it's a, a journey I am definitely on and I appreciate, like, I really like the idea of, you know, we all have these things based on everyone's background, but.

[01:06:13] Jordan Jonas: Things that we struggle with, but rather than destroy and tear it all down, I'm just, I think we need to like redeem and like, you know, take this down, that brick down, repair it with this one and that one rather than bull the whole thing. And so I feel like a bit that, that's my, you know, my path of also is a bit like that.

[01:06:34] Jordan Jonas: And I, I most relate to it in the idea of the struggle. You know, like, uh, there's that idea that the word Israel means like to struggle with God or whatever, to wrestle with God. And I, and that's funny because if you can, you can throw it all out. And I totally understand people that do that for whatever reason, like, ah, this is all BS and throw it out.

[01:06:55] Jordan Jonas: Sure. And I have a lot of people that I love that have done that, but then there, but if you take it seriously and wrestle with it and like, wait, what does it actually, what if I try to take seriously love your enemies? Like, what does that mean? You know? And then. That's a challenge. And in some ways it's actually impossible.

[01:07:12] Jordan Jonas: Like the call in general to love others is impossible. And it's, and, and when you live out with these people and you invest so much in them and then they drink too much and die, and that's like, it, it, it gets you, it really grinds on you at like the vanity of it all. But to have that, to choose to believe and have that orientation in the world, I think is like, I, I, I think I find it so valuable in my life.

[01:07:40] Jordan Jonas: I'm like a huge champion of that, even though I understand, I understand why there's a lot of people whose faith is tied up with like this, that unnecessary sense of guilt all the time or, or this or that. So I understand the complexities of it, but if I can boil it to down to what is good and what is, what is like, what is it that we all all agree with in some, on some deep level.

[01:08:09] Jordan Jonas: This, like the pedestal that our culture has put the idea of love on is not, not for nothing. It didn't come outta nowhere. That's not a, uh, it's not a survival ethic. It's not as far as like, it's not survival of the fittest. It's something a little bit different than that. And so, um, I wanna like cherish that and there's that baby in the bathwater that may be, that was my faith and there's a baby in the bathwater that I think in that Christian message that I ascribed to, that I think is really worth like, fleshing out.

[01:08:47] Jordan Jonas: And that's kind of my life journey of faith is fleshing that out, I guess. 

[01:08:52] Travis Bader: Well that, and that provides purpose and that purpose drives meaning and joy comes from all of that and 

[01:08:57] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. Absolutely. And then you do it in community with others who are trying to take that path seriously. You know what I mean?

[01:09:04] Jordan Jonas: And it's, it's a. So I think that's really neat. I think it's neat to be on a, a purposeful journey towards a ideal, towards a goal like that with others and progressive work that out in your life and 

[01:09:18] Travis Bader: yeah. Progressive realization of a worthy ideal as Earl Nightingale would say. Right? Yeah. What, okay, so you said it's almost impossible, I think you said almost, I think you had that almost qualifier in there to, to, uh, love thy enemy to uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:09:35] Travis Bader: Forgive those who have wronged you. Have you uhhuh, have you squared yourself of that or is that, uh, 'cause I find that one, I'm like, I don't, I can't wrap my head around like, how do you, how do you love someone who's done so much wrong and continues to actively go outta their way to try and, and like Yeah, 

[01:09:53] Jordan Jonas: no, I do.

[01:09:54] Jordan Jonas: I I do think that that's where the, the struggle comes in. But I'll tell you what is easy to do. It's easy to hate 'em. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And so I think it's incredibly valuable to have a. You know, to have that, to push back against your natural, your natural tendencies, because there's no doubt in, in history and your own life personally.

[01:10:18] Jordan Jonas: It's like this, you're always looking out for your best interests, you know? Sure. I just, I just think having that, that, to push against that, that's why I don't take it particularly dogmatically. It's not like, it's not like a law that you must fulfill. It's like a, it's a call towards wrestling with this as being your goal in your ideal.

[01:10:43] Jordan Jonas: And then, and that's good 

[01:10:43] Travis Bader: point. 

[01:10:44] Jordan Jonas: Honestly, you're gonna fall short. And I guess that's another interesting thing about that Christian message in particular is that it's like you, there's kind of like, oh, well there's grace for that, but just take it seriously and, and try, you know, in a way. And, uh, I think it just makes you, uh.

[01:11:05] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, I think I, I think, I think we take for granted how important it's that there are so many of us in our culture that have that, even if we don't even, or even if we're not even conscious of where it came from, we have that operating system running in the background. Like just even the, you think of like the message of Jesus to have, uh, to love the weak and blessed are the poor and this and that, uh, that wasn't the norm, you know, as, as the Roman historians wrote, like the strong do what they will and the weak suffer, but they must, and that was the way the world always was until, oddly enough, this other.

[01:11:44] Jordan Jonas: Worldview came into the world and somehow gained enough traction that now its tenants just run in our, the background of our consciousness, even though we don't even some, you know, my may or may not subscribe to where they came from, but I could, I feel like it's one of those things that if we're not grateful for it, we could lose it.

[01:12:01] Jordan Jonas: Because I don't think it's a given in, I don't think it's a given in the world, in world history. It's an anomaly of, you know, either consider it supernatural or an anomaly of history. It's amazing that it happened, you know, like, because it's not a given, and so we should. 

[01:12:20] Travis Bader: Well respect 

[01:12:21] Jordan Jonas: to that. 

[01:12:22] Travis Bader: I, I think it's a, a universal truth.

[01:12:24] Travis Bader: And I think if you look at all these different religions, they all mm-hmm. Will have their points that can tend to boil down to these, and I'm gonna do air brackets, sort of universal truths or Right. Or an operating system for how things kind of should proceed and people will call it by different names and they'll have different, uh, uh, ways to try and to go there.

[01:12:43] Travis Bader: But it's hidden in, so far as it goes against human survival nature of mm-hmm. I mean, for me, I gotta make sure mine, me and mine are, are taken care of. Mm-hmm. I, I mentioned this to a friend of mine. She was over and her daughter was there. And I says, you know, at the core. Everybody's for themselves. Uhhuh.

[01:13:04] Travis Bader: It's just some people that line is really close to their day to day. And some people it's pushed further. And she's like, I don't believe that. I said, okay, so someone throws a match in this house right now and it's burning down. And I didn't even have to finish my statement. She says, oh, I'm grabbing Adelaide first, her daughter.

[01:13:20] Travis Bader: Right. Well, that, that's how we're designed. We're designed intuitively to, uh Right. To protect ourselves in those that we love. So 

[01:13:30] Jordan Jonas: that, and we're Desi Yeah, we're, but it, you know, we're also really designed intuitively to be tribal. It's, you know, to be like, that's like a deep part of who we're to like our ingroup outgroup.

[01:13:42] Jordan Jonas: And it's interesting to have, um, something else going on in your ethical framework that pushes you beyond that because no, my, my boundary of who is the other and who is on my side isn't just. Who's in my family or who's in my group, or even who's in my faith scribe, or who's in my country. It, you know, it kind of pushes that beyond our na where it naturally sits.

[01:14:13] Jordan Jonas: Mm. And that's not to say that there's, I mean, obviously again, it kind of goes back to loving your enemies. Well, the fact is, is you're still gonna prefer your family, and it's kind of impossible to love your enemy. 

[01:14:23] Travis Bader: Mm. 

[01:14:24] Jordan Jonas: When it's truly, you know, truly, you know, when there's truly evil 

[01:14:30] Travis Bader: violence 

[01:14:30] Jordan Jonas: and all right.

[01:14:31] Jordan Jonas: But, but the, the like operating system that has that to counter our natural selves is incredibly valuable, I think. And I think it's taken for granted. I don't think I would, I would back maybe against what you're saying, I don't actually think it's necessarily a universal thing. It wasn't even, you know, it's not even really the case historically again.

[01:15:01] Jordan Jonas: Sim simplistically, the ro, the Roman like ethic was much different. It was like you could mm-hmm. If you had power over that person because they were not a Roman citizen or a slave. You do whatever you wanted with them and, and that was the way of the world forever, honestly, until Britain decided to try to end slavery, it was the most normal thing in the world.

[01:15:22] Jordan Jonas: It was Right. Uh, because we're stronger and it's our team and whatever. But there was something in the world that decided that, and that honestly it was to, I would, in my context, obviously there's a lot of, in my context, like as far as I'm in the west here, but it Christian.

[01:15:51] Jordan Jonas: Them state of being in the world. And I just think that that's interesting and we should under, you know, at least recognize it before we throw it all out. 

[01:16:02] Travis Bader: Yeah. Do you know who Roger Banister is? No. Should I, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh, you're kinda like Roger Banister in a way. 

[01:16:14] Jordan Jonas: Oh, interesting. 

[01:16:15] Travis Bader: So what? My 

[01:16:16] Jordan Jonas: phone dies.

[01:16:17] Jordan Jonas: I'm gonna try to go get a charger before it does, but 

[01:16:19] Travis Bader: Okay. Okay. 

[01:16:20] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. I'm heading there to tell you what, who's Roger Banister? 

[01:16:26] Travis Bader: So, Roger Banister back in 1954, he ran a mile in under four minutes, Uhhuh prior to 1954. They thought that was impossible. No man can run a mile in under four minutes. Uh 

[01:16:40] Jordan Jonas: huh. 

[01:16:41] Travis Bader: A month and a half later, John Landy goes out there and he runs a mile under four minutes, and the next year there's, uh, three more people go out and run a mile under four minutes.

[01:16:50] Travis Bader: Year after that, 10 more people and now thousands do it, and high school students will go out and run a mile under four minutes. But what changed was the people's perception of what is actually possible. So Uhhuh, if you look at alone season six, there were six seasons of alone where their contestants competed and nobody had gotten any big game.

[01:17:14] Travis Bader: Uhhuh, you, you were the first person to go out there, and you got a moose uhhuh unsuccessful. First time successful. Second time you got a moose, lots of meat. Next season, somebody got a big game season. After that, someone got a big game and it's, it's happened a number of times afterwards, Uhhuh, but through your example.

[01:17:35] Travis Bader: It's sort of become the norm that people can expect certain things out of themselves. And the way that you're talking about living your life and through your example and what you're doing with your kids and how you've learned from others and what you're doing through social media, you are showing other people a path of resiliency in the outdoors and in life.

[01:17:59] Travis Bader: I would say that is akin to how Roger Banister showed people, Hey, this is actually possible. 

[01:18:05] Jordan Jonas: Well, that's a, that's, that's a great compliment.

[01:18:12] Travis Bader: Well, 

[01:18:13] Jordan Jonas: I be the case to some degree. That be good. 

[01:18:16] Travis Bader: But, well, I, I think the takeaway for me is, is that, um, when you put your head towards something. Um, really just 'cause it's never been done before doesn't mean it can't be done and Right. Well, that was, yeah. Mm-hmm. No, go ahead. Yeah. And how am I comporting myself today in the moment that's gonna serve as an example for myself, my family, for others at a later date and mm-hmm.

[01:18:40] Travis Bader: That's some of the message that I'm hearing when, when you're talking. 

[01:18:44] Jordan Jonas: Good, good. That, that's, I like how you put that, but yeah, that's a great, it's kind of a great, um, thing to have running in the background of your mind. Just, you know, like, what are you putting into the world and is that what you wanna be putting into the world?

[01:19:00] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:01] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. 

[01:19:03] Travis Bader: Um. Is there anything I, I mean man, there's a whole ton more we can talk about, but I realize you have a battery issue that might be, uh, 

[01:19:12] Jordan Jonas: concerning. Oh, you know, I got plugged in, so I'd probably have more time. Yeah, 

[01:19:15] Travis Bader: okay. 

[01:19:16] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, it's out charging my, now I'm ahead of the game. 

[01:19:20] Travis Bader: Beautiful. And uh, you know, I was gonna drive down to your location there and, uh, and we'll, we're gonna do this in person, but I was Yeah.

[01:19:27] Travis Bader: Ju juggling my other commitments. So what we have to do, and I'm like, I either put this off for a long time or we at least get the introduction and get the ball rolling and have this conversation here and maybe are able to continue the conversation out in your neck of the woods or my neck of the woods, uh, in this future.

[01:19:45] Travis Bader: Yeah, absolutely. The 

[01:19:46] Jordan Jonas: connection 

[01:19:47] Travis Bader: has 

[01:19:47] Jordan Jonas: been 

[01:19:47] Travis Bader: made in, uh, the connection is made. Yeah. Uh, you ever make your way out to, uh, a bc 

[01:19:56] Jordan Jonas: Um, not often. I don't find myself in BC often though. What an awesome place. Yeah. I mean, it's not, not true. Not for lack of appreciating it. 

[01:20:09] Travis Bader: Yeah, it's a pretty interesting place. Tons of biodiversity.

[01:20:12] Travis Bader: Awesome for hunting. Beautiful. Oh yeah. Rugged wilderness. 

[01:20:15] Jordan Jonas: Boy, you fly over those mountains. Uh oh. Yeah. You spend a lot of time up there in dc running around, I'm sure. 

[01:20:23] Travis Bader: Um, I, I have so many other questions that I've looked through here. Minimalism gear, philosophy, being present, finding meaning, faith, fear in the unknown.

[01:20:35] Travis Bader: Talk about the more about the reindeer herders and, but I think the biggest one that I had a mark behind here was the psychology of isolation. Mm-hmm. And, and, um, uh, you know, you touched on, you touched on a lot of the points that I was, uh, hoping to uncover through, through the conversation. Uhhuh, uh, there's a couple things here.

[01:20:57] Travis Bader: Like was there anything that you discovered in the isolation that you're still processing? 

[01:21:03] Jordan Jonas: Um. No, not particularly on a loan. Again, that was interesting. Uh, I did find that, uh, I know that alone's been a, you know, it's a life changing experience for a lot of people. For me, it felt very similar to Russia.

[01:21:19] Jordan Jonas: And so it, it kind of felt, so a lot of times when I'm looking for those, the things that I, uh, went to or had to work through, uh, I think most of that work was done on in those, you know, 10 years that I was going back and forth to Russia as opposed to once by the time I got on a loan, a lot of those lessons that actually already learned, which was such a big advantage out there, you know?

[01:21:46] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. And so, uh, but no, I, what I'm working through, um, is really, is applying some of the lessons that I already now know, you know, like I, and I think it would mostly be in relation to. If I try to wear, think about where maybe I'm, it's hard to say, but where I'm kind of falling short of what I know I would think about if I was alone.

[01:22:15] Jordan Jonas: Sure. Been there a bunch. Sure. It's, it's, um, poor example. I know every time that I've spent, well, since I've had kids that I spend a long time out in the woods, uh, I think, ah, you know, when I get back I'm gonna like, make a point to take the kids out on dates, you know, each of them I should take out once a week, you know, once a month or whatever it is, and just be consistent about, about giving them some personal time like that.

[01:22:41] Jordan Jonas: And though I've. Had clarity on my priorities enough to know, to set up my life in such a way that I have a good amount of time with my family and kids I have continued to fail doing. Yeah. The plan setups like that. So that's a, that's something, 

[01:23:04] Travis Bader: yeah. That can be tough. It can be tough to have this event that you're planning towards and doing, but 

[01:23:09] Jordan Jonas: yeah, 

[01:23:10] Travis Bader: to be able to recognize in the moment when it's actually happening, I think is a very powerful tool as well.

[01:23:15] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. Being present. And that's a struggle, right? Isn't it Now? Like even, you know, we can often be distracted amongst our loved ones and not give them the attention we want or they deserve. 

[01:23:27] Travis Bader: Well, what is the notoriety that you've received after being on alone? You're mentioning, you're on Lex Friedman.

[01:23:34] Travis Bader: You're on Joe Rogan, like the. But those aren't insignificant podcasts. You had a lot of eyes on you. Mm-hmm. And you've, you've got a level of fame or infamy from mm-hmm. From what you've done. How's that been like to deal with? 

[01:23:50] Jordan Jonas: Well, it's, honestly, it's a, I sometimes a joke with some of my buddies, uh, but it's, it's at a, it's not too crazy.

[01:23:59] Jordan Jonas: It was interesting hanging out with Joe Rogan because he is at a level of fame that really alters your life. You know, like, it, it's difficult. He had to, that was, and that was still when he was in la, but he had to go to this unmarked building and he has all these bodyguard type guys around and, you know, it just, uh.

[01:24:19] Jordan Jonas: You know, if he's, the minute he steps out of his building and walks down the street, it's, his experience of life is gonna be greatly altered by his fame. 

[01:24:27] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. Mine 

[01:24:28] Jordan Jonas: is actually not like, believe it or not, but it, but it's kind of funny because for one, it's kind of a fun thing to get known for. You know, it was a fun show, a good show, and, uh, so the people that are interested in that, it usually just leads to a random conversation.

[01:24:50] Jordan Jonas: That's a fun conversation with some, you know, some stranger That's probably a pretty cool person. It's like, oh, that's, that provides those opportunities here and there to just have a random fun conversation while you're out. And honestly, it's kind of a great level of, of if you call it fame or whatever, but it's, uh, leads to some fun conversations, A lot of really cool connections, but it's not life altering in.

[01:25:17] Jordan Jonas: You know, a certain level of fame would be, I guess. Mm-hmm. Did you get 

[01:25:23] Travis Bader: people reaching out and hating on you because you killed an animal like you? Well, less 

[01:25:27] Jordan Jonas: than I expected. I'll be honest. I thought that was gonna be, I was like, oh, that's gonna be funny getting known, especially acts in this Wolverine that I don't know if most people probably think they're endangered.

[01:25:38] Jordan Jonas: I just, I was like, oh man. Uh, I was expecting more hate than I got. And initially when it first came out, I remember there were a few, but it's been surprisingly little and I, uh, maybe there's, you know, people get all fired up on the internet, but if you're thoughtful about something, and I genuinely am thoughtful about, uh, my, you know, ethics and hunting and things like that, I think there's more room for that than we think.

[01:26:08] Jordan Jonas: It's not like, it's not just like, dude, that shoots everything that moves against. Hardcore vegan and you know, there's a whole world of people out there that are open to reason, even if they disagree, potentially with, you know, somebody might choose a path of vegetarianism even though they hear my best.

[01:26:30] Jordan Jonas: Reasoning as to why I feel like ethical hunting is a thing, but, uh, 

[01:26:34] Travis Bader: sure. 

[01:26:35] Jordan Jonas: But, uh, uh, but I don't think there's as much antagonism there as you get the impression sometimes, which has been my experience. Like I said, I expected to have more hate, I guess you'd say, and I just didn't get that much. I was like, oh, that's interesting.

[01:26:50] Jordan Jonas: It's positive overall, like pretty much pretty positive. And I had to learn a little bit early on because you'll get an occasional loud idiot saying something and then I'll just, and I'll find, you know, as it does, it just grates in your mind like, why is that? You know, you have to learn to ignore that.

[01:27:07] Jordan Jonas: And so that was just a bit of a learning process. But I haven't had, I mean, it's not a ton. It's not like a, yeah, 

[01:27:13] Travis Bader: I think 

[01:27:13] Jordan Jonas: not as much as I thought. 

[01:27:15] Travis Bader: Yeah. My, my experience has been interesting. I think, um, you know, a lot of urban type people, uh mm-hmm. Are actually intrigued about the idea of self-sufficiency and uh mm-hmm.

[01:27:24] Travis Bader: Being able to forage and get their own food and hunting and the idea behind it and. I, I think it's a very different sort of, um, mentality now. Maybe it's a post covid thing. Like I was, yeah, I was invited out for a dinner friend of mine, and, uh, she says, oh, come on over. We got some other friends and a couple are getting into hunting.

[01:27:44] Travis Bader: One of them's, uh, transgendered works for Greenpeace. I'm like, A whole lot of sex. This person's getting into hunting. Like, well, I, I thought there's a stereotype to working for Greenpeace, and they're, they're getting into hunting, right? And so it was, um, it was really, uh. Uh, it's, it's been really eyeopening for me seeing the level of, uh, um, interest that people have for shows like alone.

[01:28:09] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. I, I think there's a connection to our natural environment that people intuitively know is missing from their lives and Yeah. Yeah, 

[01:28:17] Jordan Jonas: you're right on that. Yeah. 

[01:28:18] Travis Bader: They're looking for ways to be able to fill that. And for me, I see hunting as one of the ultimate ways to fulfill it, because pulling the trigger on an animal if you're successful enough to find one and get on target or using a bow or whatever it might be, is a fraction of a second.

[01:28:34] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. But, but the time that you spend scouting, the time you spend reading and learning, the time you spend just being present in the woods and listening to the critters chirp and the birds and the patterns and the cycles of the day, all of that encompasses a much deeper connection that I think, and 

[01:28:51] Jordan Jonas: I think when you see someone that's really anti, and I, and that's why I can't get that mad because I just recognize that they don't actually, they're usually not.

[01:29:01] Jordan Jonas: Actually aware of what they're arguing with, you know, like, right. 'cause most people, like, you know, like yourself, like you're articulating when you're out in the woods, there's like a deep sense of understanding of the interdependence of all the, of us with nature and with the whole system. And you see, you know, this herd of elk.

[01:29:19] Jordan Jonas: It's not like you're just, oh, I wanna kill. It's like you actually want, like you, you deeply, you deeply respect and like appreciate those animals. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, you are gonna harvest one, you're kill one, you know, and eat it. But it's like, but it's a, uh, but at the same time, you're gonna like work towards creating, you know, the best situation where that, that species, those animals can thrive.

[01:29:49] Jordan Jonas: You know, as the North American conservation model has done a pretty good job of doing, which is something I. That I'm pretty impressed by having lived overseas where, uh, you know, people usually just shoot what they see because Sure, sure. For a myriad of reasons from, you know, not having the same, uh, wealth that we do to just not having the same societal trust levels that we have the luxury of living in and all that kind of stuff.

[01:30:23] Jordan Jonas: The, uh, but ours conservation model, it's amazing. I'm always like, that's so cool. We live right near town and there's deer all over the place and you can see elk and people aren't just shooting them all the time. It's mm-hmm. Uh, that's great.

[01:30:44] Jordan Jonas: There's no, you know what I, where I think people get it wrong is people think that we can exist and we can separate ourselves from, from nature. And the wild. And the wild can exist over there. And we can exist over here, but we're, and then, and you see it when you live close like I do to wild places. It's like even if you wanted humans to not affect nature, they do.

[01:31:09] Jordan Jonas: And even if you personally are gonna try not to eat a particular type of animal, animals are being killed in the process of making your food and the process of shipping it here and there and refrigerating, there's like habitat loss involved. There's just a lot of factors where we live pushes the animals into less ideal wintering grounds and mm-hmm.

[01:31:29] Jordan Jonas: Where accidentally introduced invasive species. And it just like, these are very complicated situations. So rather than acting like we can't, cannot be a part of them, we need to. Cognize that we're, and do it thoughtfully and well, you know, be the well 

[01:31:45] Travis Bader: said. 

[01:31:46] Jordan Jonas: Yeah. So 

[01:31:47] Travis Bader: well 

[01:31:47] Jordan Jonas: said. And I think people are in general open to that message when, when they have an open mind at all and are discussing it.

[01:31:57] Jordan Jonas: But, and a lot of times I don't think people even rec, you know, there's just a lot of that that people haven't thought about. You know, when you don't live in a, in a world that is connected in nature, because it's easy, easy in an urban environment to totally feel like we're not dependent on wild places and such.

[01:32:15] Travis Bader: Well, is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about? 

[01:32:21] Jordan Jonas: Oh boy. Oh my man, that was a fun conversation. Honestly. I, uh, don't always talk about the faith and things like that, so that's kind of fun. But the, uh, uh. I, I dunno, Travis 

[01:32:38] Travis Bader: probably there probably is, probably is Is there anything that you wanna leave the listeners with?

[01:32:44] Jordan Jonas: Oh, I don't know. I guess, yeah, appreciate people listening with an open mind and yeah, we're typically all on the, you know, typically all on the same team. If we can figure out some of those and there's gonna be differences. But I, it's been one of the fun things taking people out on trips in the mountains is I get people from all over, you know, and from very different political spectrums and different countries and we all get out in the woods and you just realize everybody's, we actually all get along.

[01:33:23] Jordan Jonas: Through filters, basically through social media. Yeah. Seeing each other as another person. And you can have a conversation around the fire and it enrich everybody and you see that, oh, that person. Yeah. It's been one of the most fun things about running the trips that run is just, is recognizing that and, uh, especially in times that have been, because I've been doing this since, you know, around covid before Covid a little bit or, and, uh, it'll have all been politically divisive to see that that's not necessary.

[01:34:00] Travis Bader: Well, um, it looked like your, it says your recording stopped there for a second, maybe. 

[01:34:05] Jordan Jonas: Yeah, I got a phone call. I hit it end, but apparently, 

[01:34:08] Travis Bader: oh well Jordan, delete 

[01:34:11] Jordan Jonas: the whole thing. 

[01:34:13] Travis Bader: That's it. Done. Throw it out. We're done. You ruined it. Ah, I tell ya. Um, Jordan, thank you so much for being on the Silver Hor podcast.

[01:34:24] Travis Bader: You're welcome back anytime. Thanks. Thanks. I really enjoyed this conversation. Yeah, 

[01:34:27] Jordan Jonas: right. I appreciate it.