Transcript

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader and this is the Silvercore Podcast. Silvercore has been providing its members with a skills and knowledge necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years, and we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. If you enjoy the positive and educational content we provide, please let others know by sharing commenting,

[00:00:35] and following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the Silvercore Club and community, visit our website at Silvercore.ca

[00:01:07] Rob Chipman: I've 

[00:01:07] Travis Bader: received a couple of messages with Silvercore Podcast listeners and Silvercore Club members wanting to know the ins and outs of hunting from horseback. This is an area that I don't have any knowledge on. So I reach out to my animal, loving eating an acro Buddhist oppositional defiance disorder friend, Rob Chipman, Rob, welcome to the Silvercore Podcast.

[00:01:32] Rob Chipman: Thanks, Travis. Um, it's exciting and scary to be here. I'm looking around this fantastic studio and I'm thinking, who is this guy who is living the dream? It's like my own personal Joe Rogan experience. It's pretty impressive. Um, so yeah, thanks for having me. I should preface this by saying I am in no way, any kind of expert about horses or horseback hunting or frankly hunting in general.

[00:02:04] But, uh, I do get my, I do get my nose dirty on it, so I probably have some insights that I can. 

[00:02:12] Travis Bader: Well, I should also preface this by saying that the topic of talking about horseback hunting was really just a hook to get you on the Silvercore Podcast, because you are such a wealth of knowledge of hunting and so many other things.

[00:02:29] And I figured if I could just pull the core coat, it gets you on a roll man. The wisdom that you have been able to dispense over, simple conversations that I've had with you in the past has been pretty good. So if we can distill that and put that into a podcast, and if it just happens to be from, I don't know, starting a boat, talking about horseback hunting and seeing where that goes.

[00:02:51] Rob Chipman: Awesome. That is, that is funny. Um, so, so 

[00:02:56] Travis Bader: horses, I mean, so, okay. I, I look at this and I say, I've got a side-by-side I got some quads. I fueled them up. They work when I need them to work. As long as the batteries charged and things are running as they ought to. Okay. That's easy. Like there is a romantic idea to riding on a horse, but what 

[00:03:15] Rob Chipman: a pain in the ass, it has kind of been in the ass.

[00:03:17] There's no question about that. Um, you know, same thing, I've got a couple pickup trucks, I've got a little Suzuki sidekick, I've got a quad, used them all canoe. I've flown into places and, uh, you know, all these things get you to the trail. Head horses are a whole new level. Um, not a whole new level. They're a whole different level as a kid.

[00:03:43] Like a lot of people that do what we do, you know, I read books about explorers and trappers and things like that. And there was an image that it would be really cool to do. What mountain men did, you know, go west, find some. Indigenous people make a trade for them, gets them horses, go up into the mountains and do whatever.

[00:04:02] And, uh, it takes a while for that to happen. As a, as a teenager, I know an old guy, right. So long time ago, I started. I wa I wanted to go ride some horizontal trail ride, so saved up some money, went on a trail ride. Yeah. It's kind of boring. You know, some teenage girl leads you around and you go in a file and, but you're riding a horse, so that's good.

[00:04:24] Kind fun. Right? Yup. A little later I ended up living in central America and I got access to a horses down there. Two different types of horses there. There's a, there's a kind of horse called Andalusian, which is a very well-bred nice horse. And they have a specific gate and rich people on them. Okay. And then there are little jungle horses that if you're out in the jungle, you might get on top of, in there.

[00:04:47] They're tiny, they're smaller even than horses around here, but they're very good, very tough. And you know, as a, as a teenager, you go out and somebody says, Hey, you want to get on these horses. We just brought them in from the, from the mountains. They're all covered with ticks and you ride in a bare back and they're a little bit crazy, but you're young and it's fun.

[00:05:03] Sure. And then you go to. And you have a career and you do it forever and ever, and ever. And if you're not creative, like me, you just put your nose to the grindstone and pay the bills. And then like 2016 comes along. And in that year I made a deal with a long-term employee to sell them half of my business.

[00:05:26] Okay. It's on a five-year buyout. Yeah. So he bought half and we did a five-year transition at which time he would buy the other half. And the reason I bring that up is because 2016 was a time when I said I'm going to be moving into retirement. What will I do? I should buy a vinyl sided rancher in Qualicum beach and mow the lawn.

[00:05:51] Okay. That was a very attractive, very attractive. I can see that I said so I should do some other stuff. And, uh, one of the things I wanted to do was I wanted to do more hunting and more exploring. I've always, I've always had the chance. I've always, I've always taken advantage of the, the opportunities to go explore new areas, go do cool stuff, outdoors, you know, go diving, go traveling through the desert, go into the jungle, go into the mountains, do all that sort of stuff.

[00:06:21] Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Um,

[00:06:26] I got in touch with a character. Um, a lot of people recognized the name, his name's, Larry Woodrow, I Alma lattes. I recognize the name, respect the guy, very grateful to him. Um, and yet his name will come up around campfires in the strangest places. Guys go, oh, you know, Woodrow do. Yeah. Anyway, I, I had some friends and we wanted to do some sort of epic, uh, hunt.

[00:06:53] And so I, I emailed Larry and I said, we want to do an epic hunt. What's the best thing to do. Should we fly in somewhere or should we take some horses? Cryptic email comes back mile 2 74, Alaska highway rent the horses from Stan. I've got the maps go in light, come out heavy if you know what I mean. Okay. I guess float planes.

[00:07:18] Aren't the way to go. You'd go with horses, right? I don't know who Stan is. I don't know what we do about a week later. He sent me another email and he said, every year I organize a ride along the Fraser breaks. There's no fee it's by invitation only. Here's your invitation? Nice. Like, okay, good. So I went on that trip with him and, uh, I turned up and the first morning there's a rancher up there who rents horses to people who don't know what's going on.

[00:07:52] And he had a young girl working for him and she was riding this old horse and she said, this is ginger. This is who you're going to be riding. She's a little bit rank. So I would just ride in the Bronx, out of her. Okay. And of course I look at her, I go, okay. Yeah, you're just, you're just ribbon the new guy.

[00:08:11] So that's fine. It's early in the morning. Everybody's getting ready and you don't want to be late. So I'm looking at the horse. I'm ready to go. As everybody's getting organized. And I asked Larry, Hey, everything here looked good. And he comes over and looks at the horses. Yeah, it looks pretty good. Uh, I think I would tighten up that rear cinch.

[00:08:29] Okay. So he does tightens it up a little bit. Okay, great. Comes time to go saddle up, swearing up into the saddle. This horse starts bucking a little bit. I'm really clear. My job is to stay on top of this horse. So my feet are in the stirrups. I'm out of the saddle in front of the horn. The horns pushed up my rear end and the girl who had been making.

[00:08:55] Riding the bronc out of her is Patra fide. Oh no, she's not. She's she's going. Oh no, this is, you know, and I could tell she hadn't expected this. We get it straightened out and somebody goes, oh yeah, no, she's a, she's a really good horse. She doesn't like that rear cinch being down. So that was good. Went through that spent a weekend.

[00:09:17] There did some great riding, saw, saw some fantastic stuff and then went away to see a guy called Stanwell. Lives in McBride has an operation called blue Creek outfitting. Right? You go up there. I think I spent a week or something like that. And you go to his farm, his ranch, his, whatever he's got, he's got, you know, 120, 160 acres in McBride, beautiful area.

[00:09:43] If you ever have a chance to be up there in the summertime when the days are long, it's fantastic. It's nestled in the it's nestled in the mountains. It's just unbelievable. Very small town. Make sure you got everything you need before five o'clock has everything shuts down. But anyway, went in there and took the course from Stanford.

[00:09:59] What Stan does is he teaches you a little bit about horses, teaches you how to put pack saddles on horses and do a double diamond hitch and, you know, weigh packs and all that kind of stuff, hobble horses. And at the end of the course, he lets you take a saddle horse and a pack horse up into the mountains up.

[00:10:24] You go and you go up there and you can all your own or with a group or. It's your choice. So, you know, you've been with these people for a week, hanging out, Catherine. She say, okay, let's all, you know, we'll all go up together. And it turned out that we all went together and it was fine. We got up there and we can't go up to a place called Mount Lucille, beautiful place.

[00:10:42] Get up over the tree line and you're in the Alpine and go up there camp overnight next day, ride around fool around and spend another night. And then you come down, came back, went for the next ride with Larry. And he said, how'd it go, Stan? He said, yeah, I think we're went okay. Right. Well, did he say you could rent the horses?

[00:11:04] Oh, I have no idea. I wasn't paying attention and Larry's gone. That was the whole point called them up. Sure enough. He'd rent me the horses. I was a little bit dumbfounded because I'm thinking this is too easy. You're going to give me a bunch of your horses. I'm going to go into the woods for a week or 10 days.

[00:11:27] And you're going to say good luck and I'm going to bring them back and we're all going to be okay. Yup. That's what we're going to do. Nice. Okay. So we did that and, uh, went out and, uh, did a trip with a few of my friends and, uh, their sons and we were out moose hunting and it was great. We're not really successful with it.

[00:11:51] Sure. Um, but it was okay. And it's a lot of work. And I guess I can explain a bit of that later. Um, later we did another trip where we rented the horses from Stan and we went up to these lake and then we went down the Jade road. And after a while of going down the Jade road, some people will know this, but just south of just south of DS lake, there's a little camps that I think it's a 10.

[00:12:16] River campsite or something like that. If you've been to these lake, you'll know you come down a long hill, about four miles, five miles before it he's like, and it's on other right outside. Sure. So we go in there and we cap and there's a road there called the Jade Boulder road. And I think on one of the reality TV channels, Uh, show that shows guys getting Jade out of the mountains and that's that road takes you to that area.

[00:12:40] It goes all the way up over the, over the, the, the hill or the mountains on the, uh, on the east side of highway 37. And it goes to, it goes all the way down to the Turnagain river. And so we went in there and we're hunting caribou and we took the horses in and got some Caribbean came back and, uh, it worked really well.

[00:12:58] It was funny because Stan, Stan's a great guy. Um, and he'll make all kinds of deals. I don't know if he's still renting horses for guys to go out the woods he used to, but he's getting older now. He does still do the clinics because I've seen on social media that he's got some younger people helping him out.

[00:13:14] Okay, good. Uh, yeah, we, Stan said, oh, you know, do you think you guys have a truck that might be able to pull it. And so we arranged that. So we go up and it's, it's pretty hands-on and, and, and up close and personal with him because he takes one trailer with a bunch of horses. We take another trailer with a bunch of horses and away we go start driving from McBride, through prince George.

[00:13:36] We stopped overnight and Smithers found a place to, uh, find a place to keep the horses, ran into a rancher there who once he heard that we had horses, he said, oh yeah, I'll hook you up, come down here. And he put us on a piece of his property and we had the horses overnight. Next, next night, we went up to Dee's lake and we went, and so it was great.

[00:13:56] Come back after a week, give the horses back to Stan and then he just moved them onto somebody else. He would, he would rent them out to guides and things like that. So it was good time. Um, what's involved, right? Again, I'm not an expert, but I've learned a few things about horses because after those trips, um, I ran into, uh, we're doing another one of the rides along the Fraser.

[00:14:22] And I was up there early and a lady turned up and she drove in and saw new car come in and said, oh, here's a new person who is coming down. And she started walking down and I go, I recognize her. She's the sister of a friend of my brothers. And I had met her on the west coast of Vancouver island. Cause we were out salmon fishing and she was around.

[00:14:44] So bumped into each other. Oh, there you go. At that time, Larry was getting a little bit past organizing the rides and he wanted to hang out, hand it off to somebody else to organize the ride. So he had it off to, to pat and I, and we've, we started doing that few hiccups with COVID and fires, but that's what we do.

[00:15:00] And we're doing it again this year, but, uh, I got together with her after the ride and said, okay, we better organize what we're going to do for next year. There's not a lot of organization going on. So we met for coffee. We talked about that for about five minutes. And then I said, what's new. And she said, I bought a horse.

[00:15:17] Really do tell. Yeah. So she told me what the deal was, how she bought the horse and where the setup was. And so I went down there and next thing you know, I'm talking to the guy who runs it and he says, yeah, I've got a horse here. I'd sell. Yeah. This one's probably pretty good. He could do what you need them to do.

[00:15:37] Go take them for a few rides. See what it's like, I'm still a bit of a neophyte in horses, but I took them out, rode them around. And I said, well, will he like walking the Blackberry bushes? If I tell him to, he would, he'd go in until it was gone. You know what, buddy? This is getting a little much, you know, Willie go and circle around trees.

[00:15:56] Can I take them up to a gate and try and open the gate? Things like that. Um, probably not stuff that you'll find in a horse book that says, here's how you, here's, how you evaluate a horse. But he was clearly, he was clearly a very willing and well-trained horse. So I said, okay, I think I'll, I think I'll buy this horse, went down to the guy and said, okay, I've got the cash here.

[00:16:16] I'll, I'll buy the horse. And he said, I don't know if I really want to sell them. Oh, come on. And I'm going after all that, I've got the cash in my hand, you're supposed to play hard to get beforehand, already down for doing this. Well, the fact was he was a good horse and, and the guy who had them Darcy liked them and kind of wanted to keep them.

[00:16:38] And he was afraid I was going to take them away. And so when I said, no, I'm not going to take him off. He'll be around here. If you want to use them, you can use them any time, you know? Cause he was boarding the horse for me. And so we worked out and we got the horse. I've still got him to this day. He's he's he's he's, he's getting older.

[00:16:51] Sure. Every time I have, uh, the vet grind his teeth or check them out, they say, yeah, this whole, this horse really. I looked at him and I say, he's like me, he's old. He still goes out and does it when we go out in the mountains and we're growing up, but he'll he, I have to hold him back. He, he really, yeah. He loves it out there.

[00:17:08] Okay. So we did that, bought a horse and, and, and got involved in it. Yeah. And, uh, and it's been great. And so I take him out and, uh, for a while I had a couple, I had a good pack horse as well, but I I've split that with my, uh, with my other partner. She's got her own way with him with, with that mirror. So anyway, we're doing that.

[00:17:28] Who can do this? Anybody who does any kind of back country hunting, anybody who drives the pickup to the end of the four wheel drive road and throws on a pack and walks into the woods and, you know, spends a few nights back there can do it. Anybody who flies in on a float plane can do it, but there is a lot of work, uh, And there's different ways that it looks like.

[00:17:56] And there's a question of where do you get your horses and what can you do? So how should I best describe that? When, uh, when I took the, uh, when I took the course with Stan, one thing you do is you learn about horses and you learn how to hobble them up, cause you don't want them to run away at night. So you actually hobbled their legs.

[00:18:15] You hobble their legs. There's a there's different types of hobbles. The ones I was introduced to were chain hobbles. Okay. With a little bit of bicycle tube around them. Okay. Uh, you know, bicycle, inner tube around the parts that go around the, the horses. Ankles, you're locking up your horse at night, locking up your horse at night, but of course horses figure out how to do that.

[00:18:39] So sometimes you tie them up as well. It depends. A lot of guys will just say, you know, what, make sure that you camp on the home side of the trail and put the horses on the wayside of the camp. So that way at. If they come walking through the camp, you'll hear them and you'll know you can catch them because otherwise there'll be far away.

[00:19:01] Well, can they, they can still walk with the hobbles. They can still walk. In fact, uh, in one of the trips, we brought them back to a buddy's ranch and we hobbled them up and set them loose outside the little fence area where his cabins are and they came back and they jumped. Offense with hobbles. Wow. I have chased horses.

[00:19:25] I don't know how long, but I've chased horses on hobbles a long time. They can figure it out long enough that when you finally catch up with them yeah. You're winded and you have to fight the urge to punch the horse in the hand. It's fairly frustrated. You'll be so angry. Yeah. I won't use profanity, but you will.

[00:19:50] If you're in that situation, I could see that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But that's fine. Horse stands. Horses are, are well-trained and they're good. They're good. They're good workers. Um, but when they stop working, they know, they know the Workday's over and they get up to there. They get up to the things. So what I learned from that was, okay, it's not a problem.

[00:20:14] You get down in front of these horses hoops, and you put hobbles on them and you try not to get kicked or pushed over or beat up. What I learned later is Stan's horses are really well-trained. Uh, okay. Not all horses will do that. Um, I tried that with my, uh, with my gelding flash and I threw some hobbles on them.

[00:20:35] Yeah. And, uh, of course being the kind of guy I might did it while I was alone and I had him on a lead and I put on the hobbles and he did not like him at all. And so I had a rodeo on the end of a, of a 10 foot lead line and I had to figure out how am I going to get these hobbles off this horse or that horse has.

[00:20:54] Right. Flash, calm down. I'll fix you up. And he did, and I took him off. Same thing happened with pack boxes. For some reason, I thought that he knew how to pack. And I thought that I put pack boxes on them before. And, uh, I was confused. I'd put them on the mirror. So I put them on him. Yeah. He didn't like him.

[00:21:12] He took off for a run and I had a chain sign gas and everything in the pack boxes already went off for a run through the trees, spread everything all over the place. It was quite, it was quite, quite fun. Somebody else in the camp set, I thought we had a grizzly bear coming through the camp. Well, how do you get 

[00:21:29] Travis Bader: the horseback when it takes off?

[00:21:30] And you like that? You just hope and pray 

[00:21:31] Rob Chipman: that well, you know, horses are like a lot of animals. If you have a good relationship with them, they're, they're a willing part of that relationship. So in this particular case, flash, my gelding was all worked out. But when I said, Hey, relax, I'll fix you up. He looks at me.

[00:21:53] He goes, okay. I trust you. And so he slowed down and I caught him and I fixed them up, but it was a nightmare. No kidding. It was, it was a lot of fun. Um, so if you want to hunt from horses, there's two ways to do it. I guess one is that you get on a horse and you just go walking through the woods. And if you see something you're going to say, I'm going to stop.

[00:22:17] I'm going to tie up the horse and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to figure out how I can maybe make an approach on this animal. Um, another way that looks is you get on the horse and your ride out of camp and you go to an area that you want to hunt and you tie up the horse and then you go hunt. So for instance, there's a place in.

[00:22:38] So central interior that we go to and it's very steep, not perfect horse country, but you can make use of them. And so you go up to a great glassing place and you tie the horses up, back in the trees and you set up the tripod and the scope and you look around and you know, you see a bear and you say, oh, how are we going to get that bearer?

[00:23:02] Whatever your thing, the other way to do it is to pack into a location and then stop using the horses for all intents and purposes. Let's put bells on them, maybe put some hobbles on. And you set them up into a bowl and they just eat and you just keep an eye on them. You try and keep them cause they'll wander, but then you go hunt.

[00:23:24] So for instance, Dee's lake that's what we did. So we would, we would turn the horses out in a good area and we'd put them in a bowl or in some area where they had lots of food and you'd say, they'll probably stay here. They will. And then you just go climb the mountain and you got up to the top of the mountain and you go look for caribou or whatever it is you're you're looking for.

[00:23:42] And, uh, it's fun. You can run into problems. Um, like anything else, again, anybody who's gone out and done back country hunting, you know, you think, well, it's going to be beautiful blue sky weather, everything will be fantastic. And then the next thing you know, yeah, you get snowed in and didn't get to where you wanted to be.

[00:24:05] You can't find firewood or the firewood you find is really, you know, terrible. You figure it out. Sure. You know, So when I say I'm not an expert in horses, there's a lot of this stuff that, you know, I figured out, right. And if you have a group of guys with you who are similar, you can pull it off. Now there's other ways to do it.

[00:24:27] You can, you can have Outfitters, take you in and you just ride the Orson. It's their horses, and they'll take care of it. Or you can go on a guided hunt and there'll be a Wrangler, but if you're doing it yourself, if you figure out how to get the horses, you need to wrangle them. You have to take in some food.

[00:24:41] Most of the time, you need to find places where they can eat. And you have to, you have to look for places where horses can go. Is it a lot of food you have to bring in? You don't have to bring in a lot, because what you'll do is you'll bring in little pallets or you'll bring in alfalfa cubes, things like that.

[00:24:57] So you supplement it and some guys don't, but, but I do. I like it when you bring, if you, if you bring horses. From a trip like that. You like people to say these horses are in good shape. Good care of them. If you go in for a long, long trip, you have to worry about things like shoes. A horse may throw a shoe.

[00:25:15] Okay. Um, if you have somebody who knows a little bit about shoeing, that's great. Otherwise you might have to say, figure it out. We have to walk this horse out without putting a big load on them. Things like that. Well, 

[00:25:26] Travis Bader: how much load can a typical 

[00:25:29] Rob Chipman: horse take? I'm going to say a horse can take, let me figure it out.

[00:25:35] I, they can take a lot, but what, what I do, these are my guidelines. I'm going to say about 110 hundred and 20 pounds. Okay. Now you can get a bigger horse that can take more, but I'm not a big guy. So if you have a bigger horse, the horse is taller. I'd have to tie that knot on top of the. Or on top of the pack saddles.

[00:25:57] Right? So what you do is you have to pack boxes and then you usually have a big bag or a couple of small bags on top of that. So you're tying the knot and it's usually over your head, maybe you're standing on a, on a log or something, but maybe you don't have that. So you have to do some by fields. So it's the first thing that happens when you look at this, as you go, I need to get a great big Belgian or Clydesdale so I can load a lot of stuff on them, right.

[00:26:24] It's probably not the way to go. Make sure you have a horse that fits you. Okay. I should say the reason that this started my wife got my, my wife was not a hunter. Didn't know about firearms. She married me. She said, this guy has got guns and he's a killer. That's a little weird. I don't feel comfortable.

[00:26:43] So she took the firearms course in the core course. And that was great. I want her to take the core course because like everybody else, this is awesome. I'll get more Leh opportunities. There you go. She wanted to take the firearms course, cause she thought I'm scared of these things and I should find out what's going on with them.

[00:27:00] So she did that. Lo and behold, you got a moose draw. We went up shot the moose. My wife is smaller than me. Yep. Hopefully I don't get in trouble for saying this, but if you're going to go hunt moose. Don't take somebody who's about a buck 20. He don't carry well, they probably carry their weight. They don't make enough of a, they don't make enough of a dent in the task.

[00:27:25] That's a lot of weight. It's a lot, it's a lot of weight. Um, the good part is I got the classic Joe Rogan pitcher with, uh, you know, me standing in the metal with a moose leg over my shoulder. Show that one when they, when they put me in the ground. Yeah. But the bad part is it's a lot of weight and I just said, I'm getting too old for this.

[00:27:45] I need to get horses. Right. So that of course is why you say I need to get a big horse. Right. And I'll do that. And you'll carry a ton of weight and we'll have it licked. So it doesn't work that way. Get a horse, get a horse that fits you. Okay. Um, for me that means a horse that I can tie not on top of once.

[00:28:04] He's got the pack saddles on. And for a saddle horse, it means something where the stirrups are close enough to the ground that I just lift up my foot and my foot fits in the stirrup. And then when I'm sitting in the saddle, the stirpes are the right length, right. So, you know, big horses are great, but yet you end up having to jump on them from the side hill or a rock or a mounting block and things like that.

[00:28:28] Again, you have to figure it out. I 

[00:28:29] Travis Bader: figured it's kind of like a boat. Boat's always too big when you're fueling and too big when you're pouring it. And second you have it on the 

[00:28:36] Rob Chipman: water. It's too small. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So anyway, yeah, that's what you can do with horses and they'll get you into lots of great territory.

[00:28:44] It's good. If you like animals, horses have character, they all have different characters and they also have behavioral traits. They're they're they're they have, they have a hierarchy. They like to be in sort of a rhythm and a routine mayor's. Tend to push around geldings. Sometimes the geldings like it, because the mayor's not too, too bitchy.

[00:29:09] Sometimes they don't horses like to be in their herd. They don't like horses in other herds. And if you're not aware of those things, you can get into trouble. Um, we were up hunting caribou and a buddy got a caribou. He got a ball. Nice. And we're all in the same sort of area. And what happened was I'm trying to think exactly how it happened.

[00:29:34] I won't have all the details, but we were up on the mountain and I think we heard a shot. And so we looked down to where the shot is and we start looking at the guys through the glass and it was funny because we heard one shot and then we saw a cow and we thought, okay, so that's good. And then we heard another shot and of course we're thinking, why is he trying to shoot that cow?

[00:29:57] This makes no sense. Right? Well, by the time we walked out, He wasn't shooting the car. He was shooting the boat. We just didn't see the ball. So, yeah. Okay, great. This is awesome. Uh, YouTube process, the ball, we'll go back, get the horses to drag them back. So we went and grabbed the horses. They like to stay in a herd and they don't like to be separated, but we didn't need all the horses.

[00:30:23] And so I thought, well, you know what? We'll load the packs on a few. We're kind of in a hurry. It's the end of the day, it's going to get dark and we need to get back there. So a load packs on a few, and we'll take them up this Creek to where the, where the, where my buddies have killed this bull. We'll just let the other ones run free behind us.

[00:30:40] They'll want to follow us while they do okay. But they also say I'm not working. I don't have. So we can get into fights. Oh, fun. Yeah. It's it's if you have the right attitude, it's fun because you know, horses fight by kicking each other and the ones with the packs that are being led. Yeah. Can you hand it back?

[00:31:02] They can't really fight back and the horses that want to give them a beating, they'll go broad side to them and start laying into them with yeah. Oh yeah. They'll break ribs. Oh yeah. Actually, uh, horses can kill each other by kicking them. No kidding. No kidding. 

[00:31:18] Travis Bader: Oh, they're a part of the same pack and they were all apart.

[00:31:20] They're all 

[00:31:21] Rob Chipman: buddies from, yeah. I mean a story about that. I, uh, I went on a ride with a friend of mine and I said, Hey, whatever happened that horse you had last year, he got kicked by another horse, broke his leg, had to put them down where I keep my horses now. I mean, in the, in the, in the winter we take the back shoes off the back shoes, you know, when they, they, they come off periodically.

[00:31:46] Take the back shoes off. He doesn't need them. And that keeps him if he kicks somebody, he does less damage. Interesting. I never even thought of that. Yeah. Yeah. When I, when I found the place where I had to move where my horse horses were. And so when I found the place where, where I'm wearing, I'll keep the gelding walked up to it's a, it's a hobby farm in Langley and went in there and looked at it.

[00:32:09] And the lady had some horses. I immediately walk up, I look at the horses, they walk over to see me and none of them have bite marks or scars on them. And so I immediately say these are nice horses like people, and they don't fight each other too much. What my getting in with them. It, it took about two months before we put them together, but we let them be friends over the fence.

[00:32:35] So they're just separated by a fence. So they can't lay into each other, but immediately upon getting in there, you could see he made friends with the other old gelding. The old mayor was tolerant would tolerate them. The younger mayor wanted to just impose discipline upon them. Really? Yeah. Yeah. They don't do it.

[00:32:57] Travis Bader: The why I never went through my head that horses could be 

[00:33:00] Rob Chipman: assholes. Like, yeah. Yeah. They, they do that. Um, when you're out riding horses, if you're, if you're in a string of horses going through the woods, it's usually better to be in a line. And it's usually better to be in align that they like, ah, if you're not in that they will Jostle to get into position.

[00:33:22] And there can be competition where the horse in front says, no, you're not getting ahead of me. So that horse will kick. 

[00:33:29] Travis Bader: So you just have 

[00:33:30] Rob Chipman: to figure it out just to pay attention and figure it out. Yeah. And so you say, you know, have you ever been kicked by a horse? Absolutely. How usually? Right. A horse and another horse kicks the horse.

[00:33:43] You're riding misses, the horse hits you, that kind of stuff. So there's probably horse people listening to this go, Rob, you're an idiot. You don't know how to do this again. I figured it out. Horse kicks you a horse steps on you. A few times. You figure it out. You go pay attention. Don't wear flip flops. And if you are wearing, flip-flops really pay attention.

[00:34:07] Travis Bader: Lisa who listens to this and works for Silvercore. And, uh, if you, if you call in. Looking for a membership, looking for a chorus. You'll most likely be talking to Lisa absolutely loves horses. And I know when this is over, she's going to have some, uh, some advice and some, some thoughts on it, but 

[00:34:25] Rob Chipman: sure. And she will believe me.

[00:34:27] There are lots of people who look how I look at how I operate with courses and I'm sure they, they shake their, they shake their heads. Um, again, I'll say my job has remained the same. I got to stay on top of the horse. That's all I have to do. It's actually more than that. You've got to take care of the horse, make sure that the horse is okay, but 

[00:34:47] Travis Bader: they got to come first before you really want it to be 

[00:34:49] Rob Chipman: successful.

[00:34:50] They do. They do. And I'm lucky. I like animals. And with horses, I didn't know what could go wrong. I didn't know what would hurt them. Get advice with horses where one guy will say. Yeah, don't worry about that. That's a long way from his heart. He'll be fine. And then you'll find people who probably overcompensate too far the other direction, but then you'll run into a guy who's a real horseman and you'll pick up some smart ideas from him that really turns into, uh, a real life situation.

[00:35:28] I was out, we're doing a ride and I was there early and a fellow turned up and we went and we went for a ride and he said, let's go, let's go here. Let's go there. And I said, I don't know. You know, I know this trail and actually that's something else you think about. It's not good to just take a horse and go into the woods and think that you'll figure it out.

[00:35:49] When you're on your own two feet, you can do that with a horse. It's a little tougher. It's always good to know that there's a trail to where you want to go. And it's good. If somebody holds you by the hand and takes you to the trail. That's good advice. And it doesn't matter how much of a big stud you think you are.

[00:36:13] Cause, I mean, I I'm really of the opinion. Check me out of a helicopter in the middle of anywhere. I don't care where it is. I'll survive. I'll be fine. Sure. Right. Um, I'll go on trips and I'll say, okay, if we're way back there and we break our leg, like how are we going to figure this out? And if the, if the answer is well, I mean, we'll split it up and we'll just crawl out.

[00:36:38] Cause we know where the sun sets. So we know where home is. Right. I go, okay, I'll do that. You can't really do that with horses. You gotta be, you gotta, you gotta be prepared. So you gotta find that you gotta find the trail. Anyway, this guy says, let's go for this ride. I want to go here. I want to go there. I say, I think we should go somewhere else.

[00:36:53] You know? Um, I'm not re I kind of know that area, but I don't have the trail dialed in. Against my better judgment. We went that way. Got lost. We're riding along in this first thing, the guy said to me, as he looked at my dear and he said, you don't have enough gear. You do have more gear. How can you go riding around in the woods without all, you know, you need this, you need that.

[00:37:15] You need the other thing. And then, okay, well, whatever we'll, you know, we'll figure it out. I'm riding behind him and we're way, way back there. And all of a sudden, everything goes into slow motion. I see the horse start falling over and he's on it. And I'm thinking to myself, wow, this is going to be interesting.

[00:37:35] I'm about to see a guy get killed. As he rolls down the hill on a horse. This is going to be a great story by the time it's all over. Sure. Right. Yeah. But you know, it's slow motion, right? It's like when you're in a car accident and everything slows down, this horse hits the deck, the guy bails out and he's okay.

[00:37:55] But we've got this horse lying on the ground. Won't get. Oh, no, I'm going okay. What do we do? Try and get them up, try and get them up. I remember seeing an old story where some Cowboys were, uh, were trying to break a horse and to take his attention away, the guy bit, the horses year. So I'm like pulling out all this stuff.

[00:38:13] So what can we do to get this horse up? Right. Really hard to do. We had three horses. We had one horse that we were trailing and he was a big, his big pack horse draft. So we hooked him up and we eventually got this horse to its feet, right. In a way we go the guy who was riding the horse, that it's really important.

[00:38:33] We get this horse up. If we don't, if they stay down too long, they just give up and they want to die. I love it. Yeah. Another thing that's important is a horse uses his head to get up because there's a lot of weight in the head and it's on the end of a neck. That's another thing to be careful about by the way, if a horse swings his head around and inadvertently.

[00:38:53] You're going to smart. Yeah. You're going to get a concussion. Yeah, absolutely. So it's uh, anyway, we got this horse up and I thought, okay, great. This is good. This is a learning experience for me. You know, what happened, horse put his foot wrong, fell down, sprained ankle, or break a leg off and seemed okay.

[00:39:09] He was tired, got him back. And this was a guy who had said to me, you know, I I'd put, I'd put some, uh, I'd put some hobbles on a horse and it, you know, kinda caught up his ankles a little bit. And, uh, the guy said to me, yeah, it's a long way from his heart. He'll be fine. Hmm. Well, later on, the guy was out riding that horse again and the horse keeled over and, uh, almost almost died.

[00:39:33] It was a big deal and brought the horse back and needed a bunch of attention. And that's when I ran into a real horseman. And he explained that what had happened is that horse had been overworked, uh, and had been. Yeah, just tired hope played out. Yeah. Because you can, you can run them to death. You can run them to death.

[00:39:55] Right. And this wasn't so much running to death, but he wasn't ready for the mountains. And it was tough. And horses, I guess, are, I mean, anybody who knows dogs and, uh, is aware of, for example, border collies, a lot of drive used to have a border Collie. Yeah, exactly. And you can, you can work a border Collie to death.

[00:40:14] They w they will, they will work themselves to death. So it's your job to make sure that you don't do that same thing with horses. Make sure you don't get horses into a problem where you, where you, where, where they're gonna gonna maybe hurt themselves. So the wise horseman said to me, yeah, you know what?

[00:40:30] You gotta, you gotta watch out, you gotta take care of the horses. You got to make sure they have water, got to make sure they have feed things like that. And he was throwing blankets on his horses. I'd seen lots of horses in the interior. I've seen him out in the snow. I've seen him out doing all kinds of things.

[00:40:43] And again, with horses, it's similar dogs. You first get it. You project, some of your identity onto them say, this dog is really great because I am braid and the dog is really tough because I'm tough. And the dog shooting do her discomfort because, because I can. Yeah. And you see that, you know, once you say it, you understand how crazy that is.

[00:41:09] And what, what my friend said to me was he said, these horses come up from the coast. They're not used to the interior. I throw blankets on them at night because you know what, they're going to work hard for me in the daytime. And I want them to use that energy in the daytime. I don't want them using the energy overnight to keep themselves warm.

[00:41:28] And it was so counter to it's a long way from his heart. And that's, that's something you should keep in mind. If you want to take horses into the woods, it's kind of like taking little kids into the woods. They'll love it. They'll have a fun time, but you're going to have to remember. They haven't been fed for a while.

[00:41:48] Time to stop, stick some food in them. Otherwise we're going to have a meltdown and we're going to have an unhappy group of kids. Right? So it's time. So it's similar with horses, except you're dealing with a, with an animal that's a thousand to 1500 pounds and has long legs and can break and stuff will go wrong.

[00:42:07] You'll want to find a way to go down a hill and it will be a little steep, but you'll say, you know, we're, cliffed out up here. We need to get down to that Creek bottom. That's where we have to go. And you don't have to be doing this too long before you hear people share their story of when they watched a pack horse roll down a hill until it fetched up against a tree.

[00:42:32] That'd be scary. It's a little scary sometimes afterwards, you know, it's like that Steve Rinella thing. It's terrible while you're doing it. It's so much fun later. Right? Type two fun. Exactly. Exactly. Other things will happen. You know what. We're on a trip one time and, uh, we have to get a, again, it's one of those things you got to get down from up high, down low, and we're up north, we're in kind of Muskogee area and it's not great horse country, but we're going to make it work.

[00:43:03] And, uh, a friend goes down. He says, yeah, I think we can come down through here. And another friend follows down and goes a little bit off. And all of a sudden America's riding her back leg, goes into a hole and she's got three legs that are up at one leg that is buried to her hip. And I'm up on the hill and I'm thinking, oh my God, we're like two or three days into this.

[00:43:26] And we're at the next stage where we level up, because we're going to have to shoot this horse now, thankfully. Great guys. I hang around with two of them were immediately down, pulling rocks out, digging the horse out. We got the horse out and it was okay. It all worked out, but you gotta be prepared. That kind of stuff.

[00:43:46] That is iteration. Yeah. Yeah, it could happen. So if we're going on with an outfit or like Steamboat mountain Outfitters or something like that, they're going to have somebody who's going to take care of that stuff. You're not going to run into that jackpot and you'll get exposed to two horses. If you're going through, you know, the muscular Chica with Wayne saw Chuck, same thing.

[00:44:05] There's going to be somebody who knows more about it. If you're going in with a guide outfitter, there's going to be a Wrangler there who takes care of that work. If you're doing it yourself, you have to do it all yourself. Which means you got to get up in the morning. Somebody else has me. Coffee, get breakfast.

[00:44:23] You got to get up in the morning. You got to go find the horses. You've probably got them out in the meadow. They're hobbled. Perhaps they've got some bells. Yeah. But they can wander a lot in the night as they're grazing. Like how far away 

[00:44:36] Travis Bader: would you be 

[00:44:36] Rob Chipman: looking a mile? Yeah. Yeah. It could be a mile. Now think about that GPS.

[00:44:42] Um, uh, I don't okay. I don't know if guys can GPS from the way they do dogs. Normally what's going to happen when we're out. We're going to say this is where we're going to camp, but the reason we're going to camp here is there's water and there's feet. There's places to put the horses. Um, but you think.

[00:45:00] What are we going to do when we get up in the morning? Now, if we've walked in, we've probably got an area that we know we're going to hunt. We're going to get up before dark. We might go out there and find that place. We might go out with headlamps with the red lamp, right. And climb the mountain and get up there so that when the sun comes up, we're already positioned.

[00:45:22] Well, if you're going to have a bunch of horses, that means you have to get up in the dark and take care of them. Or somebody stays behind a camp and takes care of them, or you don't get up early in the morning and get to your spot in time. Right. So that's something that. At the end of the day, if you've been using the horses through the day, you're gonna say, okay, so we get to camp.

[00:45:45] If camp's not set up, we need to set up camp, whatever we're going to do. If we're going to put flies up tents up, whatever we've got to do that, maybe gather some firewood, get things organized. We need to do that. Somebody else has to take care of the horses, get them all on saddle, get the tackle, organized, get the horses, fed, get them hobbled, get them, get some bells on them and turn them out where they're going to be.

[00:46:08] Okay if you're camping in air and you've got horses that are ramble around, maybe a mile away with bells dinging all night long, that might not bother some animals. I mean, you'll see pictures of moose running right through orchard. Okay. But it might. Yeah. And there might be guys in your crew who go, we haven't seen any games.

[00:46:30] I wonder if these horses are, are the reason these walking tambourine. Exactly. So you gotta keep that in mind. Um, the bells, the bells are important, and the reason they're important is because if you've chased horses for awhile, you start sleeping with horses and you hear the bells at night, you go, ah, I'm so relaxed.

[00:46:55] I can hear the bells as opposed to waking up and going. And I hear nothing. There's no bells, what's wrong. Right? Um, other things go wrong middle of the night, you know, maybe you've maybe you've thrown the horses in some kind of a rough corral because you don't have a lot of good feed and you don't have a good place to highlight them or you can't haul them.

[00:47:16] And then the horses breakout in the middle of the night and that's when you go Travis, I am never going to forget that side of you running around. In your gig, trying to catch horses in the dark. No, it happens, right? It happens. I mean, imagine you throw up a fly one night and you think, yeah, it's nice. We don't need a really good flight.

[00:47:40] And then around two in the morning, thunder storm comes through and it's getting you wet and you go, oh my God, we shouldn't have cut corners. Now we got to fix it. Those kinds of things, those kinds of things happen. So, you know, that's, that's horse wrangling. It happens. You have to, what about 

[00:47:55] Travis Bader: predatory animals?

[00:47:56] Like cougars? Is that much of a concern bears? I understand statistically. Nobody has ever been attacked by a bear. Well, on horseback, apparently there's a statistic out there that says, if you're on horseback, you are safe. Statistically 

[00:48:15] Rob Chipman: speaking. Okay. You're first off in some respects, you're asking the wrong guy.

[00:48:21] I don't worry about very much. Yeah. I don't care. Um, people say, what do you do about bears? I go, well, I mean, sometimes I throw them in the freezer. Sometimes I look at them. Um, am I worried about them attacking me? Not really. I mean, you know, if a bear jumps me, he's going to jump me. Yeah. I've got a 3 0 8.

[00:48:43] You know, people go, well, what's better bear spray or a rifle. I go, I'm not fooling anybody. I mean, if a bear is running at me, you think I'm going to John Wayne him and shoot him from the hip and knock them down. Probably not. I say you have to have a firearm because if the bear jumps on your buddy, you can then do something about it.

[00:49:00] But I just generally don't worry about them that much. Um, I know too. Absolutely. Stories one is a, guy's got a moose. This wood would have been around horse flyer likely. Okay. They got a moose late in the day, uh, started processing. It had to come back. The next day, brought the horses in overnight grisly had come in and decided it was going to claim them.

[00:49:26] So that was a bit of a, that was a bit of gong show. And, uh, that bear wanted to interact with the people on the horses. Oh, really? Yup. Okay. Um, another time, I don't know where it was, if it was like, you know, it was Northeast BC. Um, so friends were riding in and, uh, they got charged by a grizzly on horses.

[00:49:50] It ended up great. And like a lot of those grizzly stories, you know, the guys were reflecting and said, yeah, you know what I mean? I'm on the horse. I'm leading some pack horses. I've got a bear gun, you know, shotgun ready to go when it happens, when it goes down, None of it is turning out the way it does in your dreams.

[00:50:11] It doesn't go like that. Right. It's like that Steve Rinella story where he says, I always wanted to get clawed by a grizzly. So I'd have the claw across the scar, across my chest. But yeah, but then when he has the actual run in with a grizzly, he goes, yeah, I no longer, I no longer have that dream because reality is not the way you imagine it will be.

[00:50:34] And it never is. No. Now, when it comes to cougars, there is a story that horses buck as an evolutionary response to predation by cats. So the cat jumps on the horses back and the horse box it off. I don't know if that's true, but I know that my rancher friend has a horse that has some unbelievably impressive scars across his rear end because when he was a full.

[00:51:07] Crew to moved in and, and he had, he had several falls and the Cooter moved in and knocked off a bunch of them. And this one survived. The mayor didn't survive. She was so traumatized, um, that she couldn't, she couldn't recover. Her breathing was all screwed up. Something happened or the cat never touched her, but they ended up having to put that, put that merit out.

[00:51:29] But the falls, uh, I mean, come out with me this summer, you'll probably see it. And it's got some great looking scars across its rear end because Kruger's will, cougars will knock off for sure. They'll knock off foals. I think if it was bad-ass enough Cougar and a knockoff, a knockoff, a, uh, a, uh, a full grown horse.

[00:51:49] Do you have to worry about them when you've got them, you know, tied up somewhere. I think you do the same way. You always have to worry about it. You know, when you're camping, do you have to worry about a Barrack. It ain't going to change anything. It's not going to change anything, but I mean, you know, you say, well, you know, we'll try and keep a clean camp.

[00:52:07] We'll try and have some bear spray around. We'll try and know where I put the rifle. You know, we'll be prepared for it. Right. We'll know what to do. Similar with horses. You can just got to keep an eye on them. Now, if you turn them loose out in a field, you're not really keeping an eye on them. When I say that you can haul them up, put some bells on them and turn them loose in a bowl.

[00:52:30] Again, picture yourself up in the mountains. You're going to let them go in a bowl that you're not going to be hunting caribou, and you're going to be hunting somewhere else. Meaning you're going to be far away from where those horses are. So it's kind of like when you get back to camp, you'll say somebody better go up and make sure the horses are okay.

[00:52:47] You've been away all day. Maybe a grizzly came in and killed four or five of them. I don't know. I haven't heard of that happening. I don't worry about it too much. 

[00:52:56] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know if like a hobbled horses just looks like kind of meals on wheels to, to a cat. Uh, I don't know the interaction between bears, but I'm learning more 

[00:53:06] Rob Chipman: now.

[00:53:08] Yeah, it could, it, you know, it could be, I will say this. I went to the Nemiah valley. Uh that's by Choco lake in the Chilcotin and if nobody's been there, you should go, uh, it might be tough right now with COVID that's that's in Soko, teen nation declared title. And so they might have a shutdown, right. But if, if, if things change, you get a chance to go there.

[00:53:29] You should go so-called team have a long history with horses. And when I went into that campsite right off the bat, somebody comes up to us. Hey, have you seen the grizzly come down, Grizzlies trying to get some of the falls in that. Really what happens? You should see the mayors run that grizzly off.

[00:53:49] Really? Yeah. Now, you know, we have a lot of wild horses in BC, feral horses, wild horses, whatever you want to call them. They live out there and they survive. So, you know, do moose and deer have to worry about predators. Yes, they do. Do they know how to deal with them? They they've got some tricks. I mean, I remember hunting to caribou one time and we never got him and we chased him all day long and he schooled us.

[00:54:17] And the lesson that I took away from that is he looked at us and said, you guys are prepping. I'm prey, right? Not my first rodeo. Right. I didn't get big and attractive this way by losing. Right. So, so, and I think horses probably have that built into them too. They can, they can do some stuff. And as I said, you gotta be careful with horses among each other.

[00:54:39] They can hurt each other quite a bit that never crossed 

[00:54:42] Travis Bader: my mind before that it seems like you get a pack of dogs together. Sure. They might fight that might play fight, but for the most part, they figure it out and they get along. Pack of horses and wonder why that is. You don't have the sense or they got so much sense of 

[00:54:58] Rob Chipman: the, it depends.

[00:54:59] Horses are individual too. So I gotta be, I gotta be clear. They don't all do that. You don't always have nasty horses, but sometimes you do, and it can be any number of things. I ran into a horse one time that it had a bit of a stroke, so it didn't have good sight on one eye. And its tongue was a little bit paralyzed and its, its hearing.

[00:55:16] Wasn't that good you approach from that bad side? Oh, you're in trouble. There was a lot of fear in that horse and fear can turn into some bad reactions. Right. And I've described my gelding already when he gets scared. I can say to him, Hey, calm down. And he's got the trust and confidence that he will do that.

[00:55:35] Right. I've taken him through some terrain that is, is, uh, difficult and scary. Yeah. You give them a little time to calm down and he'll do it. Will you walk them through that? Oh, a lot of times. Sure. Yeah. A lot of times, a lot of times, one thing you got to remember with horses, a lot of times you're getting off the horse and you'll do that also, because if you're on the horse for a long time, it's good.

[00:55:56] Sometimes to get off and walk and get some blood going through your legs, I should imagine. Yeah. But horses get scared of things and sometimes it's, it's not something they should get scared of, but they do. And if you try and stay on them, it might end up not being good. Right. I remember one time, my guy flash is a little bit funny about water.

[00:56:18] I say a little bit, like when you're leaving, he doesn't want to cross the water when you're coming back. No problem. No problem. Right? Day's over. You're going to go eat, but, uh, we're looking a little Creek one time and I want to get them across and he didn't want to. And he kept getting closer and closer to a tree and I kept fighting him through that and trying to get him across.

[00:56:37] And it ended up that he ended up jumping across. We were close to the tree, not quite enough for him. So when you have me between a horse and a tree, you know, who ends up of course, saying to everybody, oh, I'm good. No problem just covered in mud down here. Yeah. So, you know, that's a time when you might want to say, you know what, why don't we just lead this guy across?

[00:57:06] And that, you know, people might be picturing what you're going to Wade through a Creek. It's not always out. Sometimes you're up in the mountain and there's a Creek. That's only, you know, two or three feet across. Um, you can jump across it, but the horse doesn't want to go across it. And the entry to it is a little bit snotty.

[00:57:21] Sometimes it's better. Just get off, grab the lead, say, come on, you can come with me and he can pull it off. So if you have a group of 

[00:57:27] Travis Bader: horses, are you tying them like tail the tail, the nose sort of thing. Are you just kind of trusting that the other ones will follow? If it was 

[00:57:35] Rob Chipman: like one person? It's a good, it's a good question.

[00:57:38] Sometimes. Yes. Sometimes. No. Generally, you're going to be on a saddle horse. Okay. And you're going to have a lead to a pack horse. Yeah. And then if you have other pack horses, you'll tie the pack horses together. Now some people will tie the lead on the second pack horse to the tail of the first pack horse.

[00:57:56] Some people will have what's called breakaway tying twine, which is basically it's it's it's, uh, baling twine. It's when we get her off a hay bale. So it's more of a psychological 

[00:58:07] Travis Bader: leap 

[00:58:07] Rob Chipman: than it we'll know what happens. It's not a psychological leave. What happens is you'll tie that to the saddle, the pack saddle, or to the harness, wherever you tie it, wherever you want.

[00:58:17] And then you tie the lead on the second pack horse to that. So if something happens, they get spooked or maybe one of them goes on the wrong side of a tree, or they get caught between two trees. When there's a bit of. That baling twine breaks. Don't pull off the packs. You don't have two horses trying to run in different directions.

[00:58:39] So that works. You can also just say these horses are okay. We're going to lead a couple and we'll let the other ones follow on their own and figure it out. If you've got good horses that understand that they'll do it. Um, I borrowed a horse one time, JJ, his name was great horse, really nice, really nice attitude dumber than a sack of hammers.

[00:59:08] We had him following behind us and we're going through bro. Blow down. It's it's BC there's beetle kill there's blowdown all over the place stuff that you can walk up to and throw a leg over a horse has a hard time, sometimes getting four legs over. Right? So you're picking your way through it. You don't want to break out the chain.

[00:59:25] And you don't want to always be dealing with this pack horse. So we let them walk free. Had to keep an eye on him. Cause he'd start grazing. Yeah. We'd be a hundred yards down the line and he'd be lost. He'd be going, wait where'd you go? How do we figure it out? So he wasn't appropriate to lead or he wasn't appropriate to follow.

[00:59:42] Right. But some of them are great. Some of them will do it. You run into other problems with, with pack horses, they've got pack boxes on them. You go between two Jack Pines. You ride between them. The horse behind get stuck. Right. Can become a nightmare. Now I was, I, I, I was, I was lucky. I've just been, uh, uh, I've acquired good horses.

[01:00:01] I mean, the mayor that I had up until last fall that would happen with her, the lead would get yanked out of your hand. You'd look over her shoulder and she'd have a look in her eyes like. You've got to pay attention. I've got packs on my back. I can't get through this stuff. Right. But again, if you like animals and you have relationships with animals, you, you start to pick up on that stuff and, and you, and you figure it out.

[01:00:29] So, you 

[01:00:30] Travis Bader: know, I guess one big benefit, uh, hunting with horses would be the length of time he can be out. You don't have to have extra fuel with you to keep these things fueled up. Um, w what are the other benefits 

[01:00:44] Rob Chipman: it's quieter, right. Okay. Also, if you ever try and take an ATV down a horse trail, you'll find they often go along steep Hills and a horse needs a boat, you know, 10 inches in order to walk down a trail, right.

[01:00:59] Quad needs, you know, two and a half, three feet. Right. And if you're on a 45 degree angle, yes. Sidling, that's not fun. It's not too fun. Right? Um, so that's, that's good. It will get you into some areas, you know, close to motorized vehicles. Sure. Horses can go up there. Right. You can go all over the south Choco out and go through big Creek park, all kinds of things, um, with horses.

[01:01:27] Um, yeah, so you don't have to take fuel. You can get into areas that are close to motor vehicles. You can maybe get back further. You can go over terrain that, that, uh, uh, quad can't get into. Um, but also there is the aspect of what do you like more? Do you like hunting more or do you like horses more? For me?

[01:01:49] It's a pick them. I'm a little, uh, I've I've got more time for doing things now, so I can say, well, I'll go in there and yeah, it takes some time and you've got to organize things, but once you get. It's okay. It's like flying to Thailand. If you're only going there for a week, it's very expensive. If you go in there for a month, it's easier.

[01:02:08] Cause once you're there and you're set up the amount of time that you're there, it's there. Yeah. So yeah. So that's, that's, that's good. Fun with horses doing that. You do run into jackpots. Things can go south. You have to be prepared. I guess if you're using somebody else's horses, who am I getting them from?

[01:02:27] Am I going to take good care of them? Will they come back in good shape? If something goes wrong and I have to kill this horse, how am I going to explain that to the guy I got the horse from? Is he going to be okay with it? You know? So, you know, it's good to have your own horses, then you don't have to worry about it.

[01:02:45] Right. So yeah. What else can I tell you about them? It's there's all kinds of, there's all kinds of. Tricks. You have to learn with tack. You have to learn how to saddle a horse. Oh, I guess we should go back to this, the whole thing far from his heart. Right? Um, you put a saddle on a horse horse. The saddle is supposed to fit the horse.

[01:03:09] It's supposed to be kind of comfortable. It's supposed to not do damage to them. When I started out lunchtime comes or we take a break, I'd rip off the saddle and take a look at the horses back. Does it look okay? What am I looking for? I don't have a clue. I'm just trying to make sure that nothing is going wrong.

[01:03:29] Well, at one point in time, horse came in and a lot of gear on the saddle, everything that it needs, and a guy said, can you take this saddle off? I'm a little tired. Took off the saddle. Damn near killed me. It was so heavy. And I see that this saddle has been rubbing the horse through the blanket and through the pad.

[01:03:51] And he's got a saddle sore that is probably the size of two. Your thumb put together. Yeah, no hair, no skin, just pissy, oozy, gooey stuff. And you go, that's what I'm looking for. That's what I don't want to find all the times I've taken off the saddle and thinking, God, am I being an idiot looking at this horse now I know I'm not because that's what a day takes.

[01:04:18] And the horse is what's called a dumb animal. It doesn't mean it's stupid. It means you can't talk. You gotta be looking for behavior because behavior is communication. Somebody missed it with this horse. And after that, you know, we're not putting us out a lot of Memorial. No kidding. We're not using them.

[01:04:37] He's out of action. Big strong beast. He's smart. He's willing, he put up with all of that, but we're not using them tomorrow. Right? So the next day, obviously lunch game, I didn't feel bad about pulling the saddle off my horses and just checking them out to them. They're fine. You know, it's like checking hoofs and things like that.

[01:04:57] Right. Are they, are they okay. The other thing about behavior being communication, I learned something about, you know, you hear about horses going lame, what will happen? What will we do? And what I found out was. They'll do something. They won't behave the way they normally do. And it takes you a while to figure out that behavior is communication.

[01:05:21] And in this particular case, I had a friend on my mirror. I said, come on, just put the heels to her, um, get her going, break her into a truck. Cause I was trying to teach them how to ride, ride horses. And I said, you know, walking is fine. Trots. The hardest one it's it's so Jocelyn and there are people who will teach you how to do it properly.

[01:05:42] Me I'll look at you and I'll say, you're going to figure it out, but I'll tell you what if it feels like somebody's jackhammer in your junk, you're doing it wrong. Don't do that. Do something else until it feels like you can make it work. You gotta use your legs. You gotta use Tommy. You gotta feel the rhythm hours.

[01:05:58] Anyway, this guy couldn't get the, couldn't get the mirror out of a walk. Right. And it took me a while to figure it out. And then I went and looked and go first off, she's thrown shit. Second off she's got sore feet. That's why she doesn't want to do what she normally does. Got her back to town. Had somebody look at her.

[01:06:21] She goes, nah, this horse has got big Huff problems. She's been in too much wet ground or Hosur screwed up. We're going to have to do a, uh, program of getting them back in shape. That takes about six. It took us about six months to get it done. Okay. So that's something to think about. It's kind of like you going out with your gear and your gear breaks and you say, we can't just fix it right now.

[01:06:44] This is going to take a while to fix and you're in the middle of a hunting trip and you go, what do we do? So you have to be prepared for that. So for a lot of people, they're going to go, Nope. Don't want horses. Yeah. That's uh, that's, it's going to cramp my style too much and it's certainly can, it certainly can.

[01:07:02] So you gotta be, you gotta be aware of it. Good way to say. Going on trail rides. See if you like horses, some people are afraid of horses, right. You know, um, I've tried to get my wife to come out with me a lot. She's worried about being on top of a horse. Okay. She's worried that she'll get thrown. She's worried.

[01:07:19] She gets stepped on. She's worried. She'll get bit. 

[01:07:22] Travis Bader: Those are the ones that ended up getting thrown, stepped on her bed because they're worried about it. It's in their mind somehow it's a self 

[01:07:29] Rob Chipman: fulfilling prophecy I've found it could, it could be unit, you know, Nicole and you know me, she's a survivor. We've been together well over three decades.

[01:07:41] And, uh, I now finally appreciate how much she's put up with it. She's good. We've worked out a good, we've worked out a good system and this will tell you how, how, how good my horses. She will walk and I will ride. And my horse flash, we'll just tuck his head in right over her shoulder. Cause he goes. And he just walks beside her.

[01:08:04] Doesn't knock her over. And, uh, you know, in the summertime when we're out, just fooling around, that's a great way to spend time. We go and we climb mountains and we go look around and we see all kinds of stuff. Very cool. Now, if you're going hunting and you say, let's really buckle down, you're probably not saying, oh yeah, you know, we'll just walk with me on the horse and my wife and front we'll have the dog say, we may as well bring along some toddlers.

[01:08:32] There are times when you'll do that with hunting. I mean, that's how you introduce kids to haunting, but it's not a kind of serious hunting that you do with your buddies when you're going into the back country. And you're, you know, you're, you're, you're being really hardcore, right? So you have to keep that perspective.

[01:08:46] And you know, if you think that horses are going to be the solution, that's going to get you into the sweet magic, you know, honey hole, or you're going to get epic game. That's not how it works. Right. But if you've got the right perspective and you've got time, it works out well. We were in the itches. We flew in there.

[01:09:08] Right. So flying to edge lake and we walked up the mountain and we went out and caribou and, uh, got a great bowl. And it was, it was, it was a funny day because, uh, we, we dropped that bowl. It was opening day drop. And then we saw a helicopter flying over top of us, circling around, circling around. We go, I wonder what they're up to.

[01:09:30] Well, I mean, you know what, they're up to their CEO's right? So they saw us, they circled down, they come down and everybody's panicking going, oh my God. Oh my God, are we guilty of something? We've done something wrong. What's going to happen here. We're fine. We're fine. What's going to happen. Guys, come out out of the helicopter, look at your tags and everything.

[01:09:48] And they walk over. They go, ah, nice bull. Pretty good. Um, that part was funny. Uh, if, if you haven't run into CEO's out in the back country recently, they've got like a S they've got like an iPhone on steroids that has a bunch of information on it. So you'd give them your ID and they can tell, and they might say, so it says, you should have a mule deer tag here as well.

[01:10:12] You better have it, so you can show it to them, all those kinds of things. So, so those guys, those guys turned up then. Two guys rode up on couple horses. I think they had a pack horse as well. Okay. Young guy dressed up camel. Grew your gear, all the high stuff. Yep. And his dad jeans, ski jacket chain smoking.

[01:10:37] Yep. Gary, Gary and Devin. I think they were they'd come up and they'd go. Nice. Bull dairy says. Know, can I bring my horses up, get them used to, uh, to the smell. This one's a new one. And, uh, he's not used to it. He said, sure, come on up. And we did, and we had a great chat with them and, uh, we actually told them, we said, you know, we'd been up here a few days scouting and you know, we've got a bull, but we're going to tell you down there, there's another herd.

[01:11:08] We're pretty sure there's a shooter in there. So they go, okay, that's great. And they leave and they go down and later that day they're coming back. Sure enough. They've got the bull in. It's funny because as a relieving, my buddies and I, we look at each other and we go, what do you think about old Gary?

[01:11:24] They're old cowboy hats, ski jacket, jeans, chain smoking. You think he's a closer? Oh yeah. Yeah. He is so sure enough. They come back with the bowling and they were all happy and they paid us back later, we went down to the, to the cabin and we'd been, we'd been eating out of. You've been eating freeze, dried food the whole time.

[01:11:44] We said to those guys, Hey, any chance you might have like some onions and maybe some spice, you know? Cause we got a new caribou and we want to eat some, they set us up so good. They said, yeah, we're on our way out. We'll give you the homemade bread from mom and we'll give you all this stuff. And uh, those are also some Cuban cigars and a bottle of whiskey.

[01:12:03] And we're thinking like, why are you doing this? And, well, it was because we turned them onto the ball, which ranges just done, because go, why not? We're good. And yeah, but anyway, the reason I tell you that story is because Gary raised those horses himself and he came in with his son Devin and he had not been up there hunting caribou since he had been up there years before with his father.

[01:12:26] So from that point of view, um, it was kind of cool because they had a three-day ride in and then they had time when they were up hunting there and then they had a three-day ride out and it was a great father and son. That's fairly cool. Yeah. And the coolest part of course, is that when they left the cabin, they laughed and we waved goodbye.

[01:12:46] And then about a half hour later, they came back and they said wrong trail, they got lost. So he had to come back. It's pretty funny. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful horses to carry raised the horses themselves. So they're all matched nice bays and, uh, it was good. So it's a perspective thing. They're not the magic bullet as, as anybody who's hunted for a long time, there is no magic bullet.

[01:13:08] No, you got to put in the work, you do it different ways. Some guys hunt from boats, some guys fly in with playlists and some guys do it in truck. Some guys walk in, some guys do all of that and uh, yeah. That's how horses that's how horses are that's horses. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 

[01:13:25] Travis Bader: I'm sure we'll have some questions coming up in, in the comments or quite often we'll get emails coming through.

[01:13:32] Uh, Thank you so much for being on the Silvercore Podcast and sharing these stories really 

[01:13:38] Rob Chipman: appreciate it. Thanks for having me. It was, uh, it was not as scary as I thought it was gonna be lots of fun. Thanks for.