Silvercore Podcast 161 Nanuk

https://nanukcases.ca

https://www.instagram.com/nanukcases

https://www.youtube.com/@NANUKGearProtection

Travis Bader: [00:00:00] This is a fun episode. I got to fly over to Montreal for this one, and I met up with some friends from Stoger, from the breaded group, and of course with Nauck. Nuk, the company that makes those hard, plastic, heavy duty cases that you see first responders, police, fire, ambulance, military using, and it's becoming more and more popular in the outdoor field.

I. Hunters fishers, and I know that we all have options as to where we spend our money and the marketplace is getting bigger and bigger. So for me, it's not just the product that I'm interested in. I want to know about the company culture. I want to know about the people behind it. I want to know how they support their customers, and that was a big [00:01:00] reason why I flew over to Montreal, went to the Nook factory to record this episode.

In conjunction with this podcast, we're also doing a giveaway, silver Core Outdoors, and a Nook is doing a giveaway, full details of which you can see on social media. And if you are a Silver Core Club member for this giveaway, you're automatically entered in to the draw draw. That's on top of the insurance.

That's included with the membership, the free online courses, the deep discounts with all of our brand partners, and the New Outpost podcast, which is a members only exclusive podcast that comes out once a week. It's digestible, it's personal, and it contains information that our members can use not only out in the field, but also practical tips and information that they can apply to their own lives.

All for the low, low price of [00:02:00] $59 a year. To learn more about the Silver Core Club, checkout Silver core.ca. Now without further ado, let's get on with this podcast. I'm joined today by somebody who's helped shape how trusted brands connect with real people from hockey gear to global campaigns. To the protective cases many of us rely on in the field.

He's a marketing leader with deep experience across industries, and now he's bringing that to Nauck makers of Canadian built cases, trusted by hunters, shooters, first responders, and outdoor professionals. We'll talk leadership mindset and what it takes to build something that actually lasts in a world of disposable everything.

Welcome to the Silver Corp podcast, Charles Pinis. Thanks for being here. Hey, this is awesome. So. Well, first, I guess I gotta start off by saying thank you. I've been in the last year I've been to Nova Scotia, Toronto, Texas, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, uh, Iceland, Finland, Norway, [00:03:00] Sweden, Estonia. And with me, like you look around this room that we got here, we got lights, we got cameras, expensive kit, and none of it has broken on any of those trips.

And I've carried it all in my Nanook backpack and my accessories and a Nanook hard case at, I mean, I got off the plane in Finland and my. A very well-known, uh, maker of luggage, I'm not gonna name. The name was absolutely destroyed and out right beside it comes this Nanook case that doesn't even look like it's got a scratch on it, like it was just destroyed.

So thank you for allowing me to be able to do what I do. By working at a company that provides cases like you do. 

Charles Benoit: Happy to hear. Happy to hear We can contribute how we can, all right. Yeah. That's what we try to do is protect, uh, folks' valuables. So 

travis: I love no, no cases use 'em for a long time. And I kind of wanna get a little bit more insight into you and some of the people in the company culture here.

Charles Benoit: Um, so yeah, grew up, you know, French Canadian in Montreal, played hockey and, [00:04:00] uh, and skied all, all my life. Then, uh, moved to Whistler for a couple years as ski bum came back, school started advertising. Um, and then for, for, uh, I jumped CCM hockey for about 10 years, where I management, uh, the peroxide. Yeah, proc management side.

Uh, there I had a chance to work with their, with their athletes, uh, with men and women. When I talk about. The importance of pro feedback. I really got a good grip of that when it comes to, to hockey. Right? Um, yeah, I guess so. Personal. Personal with their skates and their helmets and gloves and Yeah. And then, and getting that pulse from, also from an industry hockey that is, that's very conservative.

Mm. Folks that are very, um, are not willing to change their gear. I mean, you have the best hockey players in the world today that still wear their. Pee we year. Right. Which is unheard of superstition. Right. Superstition, but also just comfort and fit. And you're not really, you don't wanna change those habits.

Right. If 

travis: it works, why change it? 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. And unfortunately, it's hard to prove the added gain that a, a new skate will have or a new stick. Right. Um, um, you'll never [00:05:00] see Louis Hamilton drive a F two just because Right. It feels good. Right, right, right. Um, but it's just less of a linear. Uh, sport where, where performance is harder to correlate with, uh, with product.

Mm. So really hard to convince, uh, pro athletes even the best in the world, uh, to change their gear. So, 

travis: but there is a psychological aspect to it. They call, I'm sure you've heard of the Nike effect, you wear Nikes, you can run faster, you can jump higher. Right. There is, yeah. Right. So I, I just gotta be like that in um, in the hockey world.

Yeah. Where they, there's a psychological, okay, I gotta be able to skate faster or I'll be better hydrated 'cause I got this drink or whatever it might be. Yeah. Um, so you worked for CCM. Mm-hmm. And if I'm not mistaken, CCM was Canadian Cycle Motor back in the late 18 hundreds when they first started out.

Right. Good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. They, they weren't a hockey company that, that wasn't what they did, but they took, took a look at what was out there in the market and what people needed and they pivoted. Yeah. And you guys have gone [00:06:00] from, well, I don't even remember the first name, started with an R, uh, but back.

Uh, uh, Resinol. Resinol. That's right. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Resinol to plastic case, correct. To the nook. And, uh, as you're moving and pivoting to what market demand is, you're bringing in some innovations that, um, I'm, uh, we were providing feedback just this morning, and I know I've provided feedback before and I've watched these things actually be implemented on your cases.

Yeah. Um, how, how are you guys finding that pivoting and how are um. And, and where are you moving with it? 

Charles Benoit: Yeah, I mean, a quick step back, as you point out, originally we were very much a commercial company. Uh, our founder about, you know, 40 years ago, built these small cases for, um, for documents, papers when paper was still, still hang.

Right? Yeah. And people carry up. Oh, paper. Yeah. But I mean, it was more of a way of doing business. So we had these small cases, also some industrial, maybe tooling, uh, purposes, but really small case, something that we, we know today. Mm-hmm. And then about 10 years [00:07:00] ago, uh, that same founder set a vision to build the best hard case in the world.

Mm. So designed from scratch with a team that's still here today, uh, to the design, the current end, uh, look and feel, and then. The origin of the company was still very B2B commercial industrial. Uh, were, were really present in the, uh, medical EMS field. Mm-hmm. Uh, defense, uh, law enforcement, right? Mm-hmm. So that was the foundation, the core of the company.

I mean, as, as again, you point out, our products are waterproof, crush proof, and withstanding kind of environment. But then as we grew as a company, we were starting to see some demand on the, you know, more consumer side. Uh, we had a really strong presence, firstly in the, uh, photo world, right? You can imagine.

Sure, yeah. Cameras and drones and people wanna protect their, their, their valuable equipment, uh, in that field. So then it was these choice. So we started making some more, uh, retail friendly products, and as that grew, we got attention of the outdoor world. Mm-hmm. Uh, where folks that are. Uh, uh, hunters and fishers and, and outdoor people were asking, Hey, can we have [00:08:00] this case?

But really to our, to our, our, our usage, right? Mm. So that's where we got some feedback instead of Sure. Then what can we do? So we grew our, our size range. Uh, we're at 40 plus sizes now. Ultimately catering different types of verticals. So photo for sure. And now, uh, outdoor hunting and fishing. Uh, we had a double rifle.

We're launching, uh, sneak peak here that we have today. A singular rifle case that's coming up. I was about that. 

travis: That solves a problem that I've been looking at for a while too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the weight on that is fantastic. Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: We, we, we always think, you know, consumers first, of course, we're all about performance innovations in our blood.

Um, um, but again, it's, it's seeing what the demand is, what the use could be for, for a product like that. Single rifle, little rifle. Last year we had our, our. Boat case as well. That was a, yeah, it's popular. Big demand, popular from our community. Our sales team was asking for it. We built one sold out in, in a few months.

So it just really is kind of going where consumers, uh, is. Yeah. And the demand has been ramping up, as you say. So right now our vision is to become a much more predominant brand in the, uh, the, uh, consumer space. Um, strong [00:09:00] presence in photo, and now really a booming, uh, in the outdoor world. 

travis: So as I came into the building and I Look, you got a few buildings here.

Yeah. Rather large operation. And I came into the wrong place and I went to the front door and a gentleman comes in behind us and greets us in, uh, in French. Of course, I tried my best. It failed miserably at, at my French, but, um, oh, hi, I'm, I'm Jose, and, uh, yeah, nice to meet you. Here, let me take you around the corner.

So I'm talking for him a little with him a little bit. I guess He's the CEO of, uh, yeah, of Nuk. And, uh, since 2018 when he came in, you guys have. Tripled in size, correct? Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: So we were purchased by private equity in 2018. Jose, who you met uh, today? Yeah. Uh, came on board and really, uh, tripled our business.

Um, um, I. Team infrastructure, you know, our operation side, marketing, sales. Uh, we also have an office in, uh, in Europe that covers all of our Okay. European distribution. We're currently, so no tariffs? [00:10:00] No, not, not for, for Europe. I mean, obviously right now is a very, uh, muddy, uh, situation that we're trying to navigate through.

But the fact that we're actually manufactured, uh, uh, here in Canada does, does helped us, you know, tremendously. Uh, something we're proud of from a, uh, business standpoint. Obviously employing folks here. Our own backyard, but also from a, you know, quality standpoint obviously tells a lot 

travis: spending time at Whistler growing up in the hockey and the team environment, how did all of that shape your, your values?

Charles Benoit: Yeah, I. Team sports as a kid. You hockey played football as well. Okay. Um, yeah. Hard to tell with my, uh, slim shape. I was a wide receiver in, in tight end. Um, love, loved football, loved the team culture aspect of it. Um, um, and, and that definitely, yeah, it did shape my, my values in some way. I, I probably subconsciously I replicate some of those patterns that I've developed in, in team sports.

Okay. Into, uh, into work for sure. Uh, um, you know, the [00:11:00] leadership aspect, the, the vision aspect, um, um, you know, the, the importance of a, of, of a, of, of a team as a whole, not necessarily having, uh, one or two or three, uh, players driving it all right? So, right. All these small nuggets kind of, I think are, are, are important for us.

I'm a big family guy as well. I do have, you know, two young daughters that, um, like to think or say that they keep me young, but give me gray hair, um, that's gonna change things. Yeah. And they're ages. Yeah. Six 

travis: and three. Six and three. So, uh, for 

Charles Benoit: sure it's, and, and it's, and I, I have a, uh, the way that we, with, with my wife try to, uh, uh, live our life.

We have these four buckets. Okay. It's, it's, um, it's yourself. It's your, your relationship with your, with your partner. Yes. Um, um, it's, uh, it's work and it's family. So Is that, is that in order? No. Well, I mean, and then the way that we see it, these four buckets, so just, yeah. [00:12:00] So, uh, me, so me could be, I. Time for sports or, or, or beer with friends or whatever it is.

Sure. Uh, time with your, your partner, your spouse, work, and then, uh, and family. And the intent is to always have, uh, um, um, um, pour some time that in, in, in, in a perfect world that's perfectly balanced. Right. Those four buckets. Mm-hmm. The amount of time you'll spend, of course it's different, you know, you're not gonna spend 40 hours a week training, right.

You'll spend three as at work, but the intent is to have a, a, a cautious uh, um, action. Each week, each month into those four buckets. So you have that equilibrium, right? Mm. You might have a a month of of work. That's intense. Don't make that 12 months. Right? Right. You might be train training for, uh, for an event, or, uh, you might go on a.

Hunting trip, you know, it's, it's more of your time. Sure. Less with the family, but as long as at one point it balances out and there's some, some, some sort of equilibrium throughout a year, for example, uh, is, is a way that we, we try to have, you know, at home, that kind of checkpoint. 

travis: How often do [00:13:00] you, uh, check back on that?

Do you 

Charles Benoit: like talk? I, I probably not, not as much as, as I would hope so, but it's still a, a fluid, uh, um. Ongoing thought that, you know, I have and that, that my partner has. And, and then sometimes I get caught up into too much work and get a reality check, Hey, watch out those, you know, the, the bucket, uh, yes.

Balance is, is becoming a bit off. So, and I think it makes you, and wouldn't, you have a decent balance. It makes you, uh, uh, I think a better person in each of those buckets. It doesn't mean that you spend too much time at work, that you'll be a better. Employee or a better, a better leader. Right? Hmm. Um, I, I know for a fact that if I don't train or, or, or play outside, you know, every now and then I, I, I get in a weird head spin, you know, when it comes to work.

So I know that I have to spend the time on my bike or on my skis or, or playing outside to, to, to, to perform even better on, uh, uh, at work. So 

travis: I think that's a really [00:14:00] valuable thing for people to recognize. I know when I first had kids, my thinking was, I'm gonna live hard. I'm gonna work hard and then when I have kids that, that's my new priority.

And I, those buckets were very compartmentalized. Right. And I'm gonna make sure I go and do lots of fun things. When it's contemp time for kids, they get 110% of my attention. Mm-hmm. And I've, and I lived that way for a while and I realize what a disservice I'm doing to my kids by giving them 110% of attention as I work on through, because I'm not providing them the best me.

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: To, uh, uh, while I'm giving them all that, all of that attention. And nor am I providing them the best environment, if they're ever getting all that attention. So, uh, having that equilibrium and that balance, I think is something that is important for people to have somewhere on their mind. I. It's like the um, I dunno if you heard a hard 75 or hard [00:15:00] 90, they got this like workout routine where you gotta do certain things every single day.

Mm. And I look at it, and I think the biggest value to that is every single day you're thinking, okay, how much water am I consuming? How much sleep am I getting? Am I reading? Am I exercising? What's my food intake look like? And all those little steps on the daily affect the macro, right? And rather than. Um, 'cause I've always, you know, it's no secret talked about before growing up with a DHD and the rest, I've, I have a, I can hyper fixate on certain things and then switching tasks is always a little bit difficult.

Like, I can work, work, work, work, and then I'm not getting outside and the second I get outside, that's all I'm doing and I don't wanna be back at work again. Right. And so, uh. I, I think that's a wise thing, what you and your wife and your family are doing. Mm-hmm. Where you got those daily check-ins and reminders.

Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. I, and I'm. Similar pattern as you, you know, you deemed to work deep into work and then forget about everything else. Right. Or I can go on a trip for a [00:16:00] month, you know, and then not work. Won't work. Exactly. So I think it, yeah, I think it's uh, and then there's ways also to integrate. I mean, we got our kids into a mountain biking, skiing 'cause because I can go for a ride.

And my kids are down at the pump track. Right? So, so you're kind of doing your own thing and you're kind of doing the family thing there. There's ways also I think, to, to, to mix it up, right? It just have to be very, uh, compartmented, right? Mm-hmm. Um, um, and we felt, 'cause I, so I play, I, I grew up playing hockey, right?

Yeah. And I. I mean, if my daughters wanna play hockey, obviously, you know, more than happy to turn 'em on. But happens that we, if we do skiing and, and mountain biking is something we can all do together. So it is pretty cool. And going on mountain biking trips or skiing trips, um, as opposed to, you know, being in the rink, although I did it, I loved it.

You know what hockey's done for me, it was, was great. But yeah, it's tougher on the family of course. So say, yeah, fortunate for, I mean, for, for sports that are more, more leant that way. 

travis: From what I've seen, you know, a hockey family's a hockey family. Everyone's like all into it. Yeah. Committed. Yeah. Right.

And basically the role of the parent is to get up early, [00:17:00] get out to the rink, sit out there, wait, come back. And it's really focused, like it's a bit of a disservice to the parent now. And there's a lot of attention for the child and, um, the way that I've seen it set up anyways. Um, it could be hard to have that balance.

Charles Benoit: It is, yeah. And sometimes, I mean, there's no. There's no right or wrong formula here, right? I think you can find, you know, your way through, through hockey, for example, but as long as you're cautious of that and you realize that, I think, you know, it's, it's, that's still fine, right? We just, I think we're fortunate to have some, some disciplines, sports that, that make it more, uh, easier on the family, and I think it just, it just helps overall mix.

Um, to, to have, you know, to be more so, so the weekend I can go skiing and then my Monday at work is, is not as, as, as tough, you know, 

travis: what role does the outside the outdoors play with you? And if you have. Ever had any experiences that have really left a mark on you? 

Charles Benoit: Yeah, tons. I mean, I, I grew up with my, my parents, uh, encouraged me to, to, to, to, to play outside.

We [00:18:00] used to go camping tons when I was a kid. Um, we had, you know, so I have summer, summer cottage, you know, at the lake, and I, and then, and. I wanna recreate that with, with my kids in some way. 'cause it's, it's, I dunno, it's, it's taught me, but I think it's just, it's just more of a mindset, uh, to enjoy the outdoors and, and help bring some balance in, in your life.

You know, we live in the city, uh, so people go out on the weekends or, or summer, uh, out in the woods. Mm. I think for me is, is is crucial. Um, and then whether even it doesn't have to be skiing all the time or mountain biking, you mean just kind of get getting out in the wild. Um, me makes me a, a more sound human.

travis: Yeah, I, I know I need it. And I learned that at a young age. I was 19 years old traveling through Europe, and I was like, oh, this is neat. I'm in London and then I'm in Paris, and then I'm in Brussels and Amsterdam. And I was like, after a little bit I was like, what's going on? Like, why do I feel so like not Right, right, right.

And uh, I needed to escape and I got out into the. Austrian [00:19:00] Alps and camped out there for a while and it was like, alright, I feel a bit more centered, starved, I figured I'll catch food. No, I starved for a week. But, uh, um, but, but 

Charles Benoit: sorry, but you go through those, those, those small events, you know, and I, I've been, uh, in some, some shaky, rocky outdoor experiences and I think it kind helps you.

Push through some small things, and those lessons, I think can be valuable, uh, uh, later in life. I also, for me, when I move out west, um, um, in the mounds, I think it also got me way out of a comfort zone. Mm. So being in a place where I don't know anybody, it's, it's kind of a different. You know, seen different area, challenged you a lot personally.

Yeah. So then when those types of events might occur, uh, throughout your, your adulthood, um, you're, you're more equipped to kind of go through them. Mm-hmm. Right. So, so, so living perhaps late like you did as well, traveling and sometimes being, you know, far from home and broke and hungry. Sure. Yeah. [00:20:00] I think, I think that, uh, that in some ways, uh, is a, not a training, but.

But I think it just, it just helps you, uh, in your life go, go through some phases that might be a little harder. 

travis: Yeah. And I think it's good to have those reminders because, uh, as we live our life and you start growing a family and you're getting deep into business, it can be easy to forget those reminders in the past.

And I find the, the outdoors is a bit of a leveler and a bit of a, uh, a gut 

Charles Benoit: check. Yeah. Big time. And I think then. You know, as a father, you want to kind of take those same values and what you've lived and you think it's best. You wanna bring that down to your kids, right? And have them hopefully go through the same positive or sometimes tough experience, but that ultimately help you for the, the rest of your life.

travis: Yeah. I'll never forget, um, I was doing a podcast with, uh, Jim Shockey and he's a, um, well-known Canadian personality in the outdoor hunting world and. And, uh, he just had a bit of a, an aside comment or a bit of a throwaway comment, but there was a lot of depth [00:21:00] to it and he was talking about his kids and how um, he's been very successful in media and in his work and everything he does, and he's been able to provide everything for his kids.

Mm-hmm. And he's to the side a little bit and he says, well. Maybe I was doing them a disservice by, by doing this, right? Like there is a certain amount of challenge that we need to allow our kids to have and mm-hmm. As much as we want to smooth everything over for them. Um, uh, Michael Easter wrote the book, the Comfort Crisis.

Mm-hmm. And how people are getting too comfortable and, uh. They have everything they need and they're depressed and they're sad and they're, they're just, they're not happy with life. They're unfulfilled. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. And then, then add that the whole screen challenge, you know? Oh, yeah. For a kids. So, so even for having even myself or my, or my kids to being out in the wild and, um, um, doing nothing or just contemplating, I think forces you to, to be a bit more.

I'd say [00:22:00] grateful, but more cautious of your everyday presence and, and not, not not being caught into the world of, yeah. Of screens and perhaps numbness as, as you say, 

travis: that's where I want AI to kind of kick things up a little bit, I want AI to be able to take over the, um, uh, like when we're done, I'm gonna be going through audio editing, video editing.

Mm-hmm. And it punks you down in front of a screen, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, if you're putting together spreadsheets, if you're creating point. Like I want it, I'm waiting for it to be at sets a level that it's more reliable than myself Right. To, to do these things, not to do all the graphical creation stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like people say like, what I, I want. Why, why do I want the machines to, uh, do all the creation and the fun stuff? So gimme more time doing the dishes. Right. I, I wanted to do it the other way around. 

Charles Benoit: Right, right. No, I, I, I think like you, CI is a more of a tool. Mm. And then maybe it's still being perfected, but, but agreed.

But hopefully that time that you don't do your editing and crunching is more creative [00:23:00] is mm-hmm. More playing outside and hopefully it's not just doing more work. Right. Right. Uh, yeah. 

travis: Have you ever asked it to take a look at. Yourself and to do a, uh, I know, a psychological profile. 

Charles Benoit: I think it's a little too, too scary.

I don't know what, I wouldn't wanna see this. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, yeah, I mean, I mean. It, it's just got such an accurate read. Right. Obviously it has to be, you know, fed properly use it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, um, but yeah, I, I personally haven't gotten to the, I'm sure at one point will, but, uh, I'm sure you, 

travis: because I, I looked at it, I'm like, am I either gonna shy away from this and have nothing online and nothing in ai, or I'm just gonna double down into this thing because.

Sure enough, over a long enough period of time, it's gonna be able to market whatever it wants. Exactly. Pinpoint to you, how did it know I wanted that? Right. Right. In that color and in whatever it might be. Right, right. I mean, it's, it's scary how, um. Uh, how it could be used very easily to manipulate people.

Oh, for sure. Such a powerful way. 

Charles Benoit: And that's almost [00:24:00] unfortunately, a given, right? It is. Yeah. It's deep fakes and the, I mean, it's, it's, it's gonna come and sometimes folks like you think of the other that might not have that read, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, we're seeing now with phone calls where you can mimic your voice.

So right there, there's tons of, unfortunately, tools that could be done on the, uh, darker side, so that that's inevitable. But I mean, we, we went through that same. Same process over the years when it comes to, uh, uh, ways to use, uh, technology to the site folks. You know, I, I do think AI does bring it to another level.

We'll have to find some ways to, around, I 

travis: think it's gonna make people awfully pessimistic right? And awfully cautious. Right. And. Something comes in, they're like, I'm not too sure yet. Right. Not until I see a face to face 

Charles Benoit: or, but I was gonna say maybe that's in the full circle where folks would perhaps spend less time online and that, you know, and, and, and back to some.

Human basics of Yeah, face-to-face going for coffee with people and maybe there's, there's some, some good out of it where people will take a step back, [00:25:00] uh, and, and play more outside and more and more of the outdoors and less time online. You know, if there's a bit of a cautiousness with, with the online presence.

travis: I think you might be right because even if you look at, um, I think the. People's online behavior is going to change and companies are gonna have to find a way to hijack their dopamine or, or get into mm-hmm. Get in front of their eyes because it used to be, what would they say? If you wanna hide a body, you just put it on page three of Google.

'cause no one goes that far into it. Right. But. Now most people don't even go past the first thing. It's just an AI generated response. It coates all this different stuff and gives you the, the best answer that it can come up with. Mm-hmm. And it's gonna get better and better as time goes on. Yeah. So if I don't have to go through one, two, up to page three, I guess, of, uh, Google to find what I want, now it comes right away, I guess I can get off the computer.

Mm-hmm. And if I. If I'm off the computer, then what am I doing? Right? And so from a, uh, marketing perspective mm-hmm. I wonder, I wonder what that means. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. I, I, [00:26:00] I think we're there today, but tomorrow I think to, yeah, to your point, uh, it'll come quick. Right. Um, just search, I use, now I get the AI from Google and search, uh, yeah.

So I never navigate down, nevermind. No, nevermind. Page three, right. Um, so, so whether you're, you're performing at the very, very top or you're, you're out. So more so than ever, um, so, but, and even back to my career when I think I love about marketing is that it's that constant evolution, right? Right. There's so much change.

Which is a cool thing. I think every, I would say every year, every feels like every month there's a new trend now and things to watch out. So I think as marketers we have to always be on the watch out of, of these new, new trends that are evolving and adapting to them, to, to our audience and our brand and, and what we're trying to offer.

But I just think it's a, it's definitely a fascinating time to be alive. 

travis: Well, people aren't gonna be, because I guess the use of track website clicks and, and flow through and, um. Dwell time and all these other things where they put heat maps up. Yeah, yeah. And see where people are looking or they're whatever.

[00:27:00] Um, if AI's pulling that from your website and it's not the actual individual going in there, like, is, is that something that you're finding as more and more people are getting their answer and the first bar, AI and Google as opposed to, uh, spending time going through a website? 

Charles Benoit: No, nothing. Um, it's more, that was more personal observation.

Hmm. Um, we, you haven't, it also probably depends on, on the product service you're offering. Mm-hmm. If you're looking for a recipe, maybe that, that is relevant. Sure, sure. We less, you're looking for, uh, what fits in the 9 35 or something really simple, then maybe that's the case. Well, that would be an interesting one, but then.

For us when you're shopping around, uh, uh, um, I think there's still given that we have a product that's been more premium, that folks want to have that full experience or customer service, for example. So I, I think we're low, perhaps less at risk as opposed to pure commodity product. Um, but to answer your question, we haven't seen.

Any kind of big drop overnight. Okay. [00:28:00] But, but I, I do think there'll be for sure a, a a shift in that regards where we'll probably get less, uh, traffic from, from, uh, from search. Because folks can get what they need without going to, to, to your website. Right. Um, so yeah, I, I, I do think that there'll definitely be a change there.

travis: You said, what fits in your case? And my head goes to the lidar that's on your phone and being able to go scan all my different kit and like what case will this, will I need to fit all this stuff into? Yeah. Is that something you have thought of? 

Charles Benoit: Yes, for sure. Of course. Because one of the biggest questions we get is that right?

Or we have a really low return rate. We're fortunate enough to to, but, but sometimes when it's returned it's, it's folks that are, that didn't really size perfectly. Mm. Uh, their equipment. And the thing is that we covered so much type of gear. Um, um, that it's hard to have kind of a, if you only did hunting or, or firearms or only photo, then it'd probably be easier to have that.

Mm-hmm. Those metrics done and then, and, um, but we, we do try to, and it's more of a verbal, so we have, you know, a live [00:29:00] chat where folks ask us, Hey, does this fit in there? And we try to help them out. Yeah. Uh, but it, but, but it would definitely be a, a cool tool to scan. Yeah. Your gear, does it fit in my whatever or, or which, which model does it fit really?

Yeah. And we can spit that out. So 

travis: yeah, either take some gear out or buy this model. This is what you need, right? 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Yeah. Huh. But now, you know, we got, you know, with our, our 40 sizes, we, we like to think that we, we, we kind of cover a large range of all, all types of equipment. So, uh, we definitely have the right proc for you, but it's not always down to the wire.

'cause, 'cause the gear can be a little complex. 

travis: I had a pack before I was, uh, a popular Canadian YouTuber, uh, photographer, Peter McKinnon. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Of course you heard of him? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Every time. 

travis: Sure. And he's, he's got this backpack on and he's, oh, this is a great backpack. And so I go pick it up.

I'm like, yeah, it's a good backpack. Better than one I was using before. Fits all my camera gear. And this Nuk one comes up and I'm like, oh, this isn't gonna beat the backpack that I'm using. That Peter Kinon says, is a be all, end all. And I'm. Quite used to how the whole thing works. And actually, I, I viewed it rather [00:30:00] skeptically.

Mm-hmm. Uh, same with, uh, the organizers. I'm like, like, who's gonna put these organizers inside their cases? And I tell you, they are, well, number one is brilliant from me. The organizers are brilliant from a mm-hmm. Um, a marketing and company perspective. But from an end user perspective, I mean, I use 'em for everything.

Right. And I can, I can just quickly have all of my kit that I want for a, a go kit for a podcast, pop it in, in a case. Protected. And I go, or if it's gonna be for something else, completely different, soft case, pop it in, go. I don't have to worry about losing things or forgetting things. Yeah. And the backpack, which I didn't think I looked at this, I told my wife like, eh, you know, I think I'll try it out.

But I love it. It's amazing. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. I mean, first, happy to hear, thanks for the feedback there. Um, I mean, there's great products out there. We know it's a crowded market, right? Mm-hmm. So when we do launch a product, we have to make sure it's, it's right. Uh, it's well done. And. Part of our product ethos is, is, is protect, organize, and mobilize.

[00:31:00] So every time we do a new launch for a new product, we have those, those three, you know, vectors in mind. So protect. I think we, we've got that nailed down with, with that, with our hard cases, as you know. But then the whole, uh, organize is also a core of what we do. Mm. So the ecosystem that you mentioned to go from your cubic to your hard case to your backpack, is that optimization, right?

Mm-hmm. So how can you bring innovation in a field that, uh, is already pretty crowded? Yeah. Uh, and have our own then twist. I mean, our tagline is always find a better way, right? Oh, I like that. And then that, that means that everything we do has to be thought. Differently. It can't be a me too. We can't just rely on the performance of the case.

Sure. Or latches or wheels. It's gotta be more than that. So that ecosystem that you mentioned for, for, or bags, uh, that could be used for, from backpack to hard case, but also as accessories mm-hmm. Is kind of part of that whole, that whole spectrum. 

travis: So I'm, I'm 

Charles Benoit: looking, 

travis: beside me, I see these, uh, jumbo wheels on the case now.

That's kind of a neat one. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. [00:32:00] Again, feedback from the, from our, our, our. Our friends and ambassadors and community, um, we make great poly etan wheels that are super smooth. But for folks like you that are in the outdoors, in the woods, uh, we've been asked this for some time to have bigger wheels. Mm-hmm.

So we've slapped these, uh, heavy duty wheels on a 9 35, and we're looking to expand that offering. Uh, obviously at. Different sizes, but we wanted to have a solution for folks that are more on in Rugged Terra to have a better balance, uh, hard case. Uh, we, we've built a back plate. You can slap one of your current 9 35 or we, we sell that as a bundle of course, but 

travis: Oh, okay.

Charles Benoit: The intent here is to continue and grow and, uh, uh, find new ways to, to optimize our ecosystem and always finding a, a better way to do things. 

travis: So for somebody like me who will overpack a case full of rifles and shotguns, 'cause we're going off to a course somewhere and, uh, 

Charles Benoit: yeah. 

travis: Then. The wheels are, are gonna be a failure point if it's, uh, I mean, that's a lot of weight.

It's that we'll put, put inside these things. It's, 

Charles Benoit: and we, we, we consider that, right? Obviously, bigger cases, some folks bring some, some heavier, heavier gear. So [00:33:00] we gotta think of the way people actually use a hard case, right? We can't just test it empty, that's why we have to do our homework and make sure that the end result and the way it's used is, is really optimized.

Have you heard any stories of people taking 'em out on adventures and Well, oh yeah, tons. And we get videos. We have, I mean the, the classic is people checking their, their 9 25 or their hard case with their drone in it off of, uh, three story building, you know, and filming it or putting a grow pro in it, having it flip, and then obviously having their gear come out intact.

Right? Yeah. That, that's the classic one crazy story that I, I we've heard recently. Um, actually one of our ambassadors, the front of his, they went on a big, uh, uh, fishing trip way, way deep up north in Quebec. Yeah. And they brought with them, uh, uh, to elderly folks that they went the same camp for the last, you know, 40 years.

Um, so, so this couple went with this elderly folks that in their late seventies, early eighties. Okay. But I mean, it was, it was all, I mean, and these folks have been going there forever and they were actually from the documentary [00:34:00] about it. 

travis: Okay. 

Charles Benoit: Um, they go there, camp Fish, spend the week there, and on their way back, uh, their canoe actually flips.

Okay? So all, uh, uh, four of them are in the water. And this is, this is, you know, cold, uh, uh, September, kinda weather, right? Mm-hmm. And then, uh, they took. The NA hard case and put it underneath the, uh, the lady and then floated her out the, the lake to bring her on shore. Oh, wow. Because the lady was, had a hard time swimming.

Sure. They're all really cold. Yeah. Um, and then not that our, our hard cases are meant to float and we don't advertise it that way. Sure. But it was a holy smokes moment and that we kind of like got off a little. A little choked up to kind of hear that little eye did, yeah. Yeah. The, the end result. So we got some pictures, uh, of that event, and they finally got some medic that, that flew in.

Obviously helped them out. So all ended well, but it was pretty cool to see the, and the, the brand involved there. 

travis: That's pretty cool. And is that gonna be part of the documentary now? I, I, yeah. I don't want, [00:35:00] I think they, they're, they're still 

Charles Benoit: working on it, but looking forward 

travis: to see 

Charles Benoit: that. 

travis: For sure. So what's gonna the, what's the future looking like, let's say the next five, 10 years of Nuk?

Charles Benoit: We're all about performance, innovation, and also sustainability. We launched last year the very first post-consumer recycled resin heart case, so it's I saw that. Yes, it's, it's, it's ultimately. Uh, think of a, uh, coffee machines, computers that are grinded. Mm-hmm. Uh, recycled of course. And then, uh, um, uh, melted to become, uh, the same performance of resin as are our current resin.

So reduction of 50% of carbon footprint. So there's a, there's a big eco, uh, friendlier sustainability, uh, presence that we have when it comes to our brand. 

travis: And there'd be a move into the future for, I think. Guess the darker cases would probably be easier to do the uh, uh, good 

Charles Benoit: read. So right now all we can do is, is black 'cause of the, you know, recipes and volume that we do.

Yeah. Uh, but the vision that we have is to expand that, uh, and, and having our whole line ma made that resin. So we actually have a local [00:36:00] partner up here in Montreal that we work with. Mm. That's applied. That's, uh, that resin. Now we're the, the first brand that that has that, you know, post-consumer recyclable resin heart case.

And the fact that our heart cases are, are built to last for a lifetime, uh, and have a lifetime warranty. You know, it, we're, we're not, we're not in the fast consumption, uh, plastic world. So, so obviously the, the carbon footprint there is, is reduced considerably. 

travis: That's gonna be tough from a marketing perspective.

If you can make a one and done case for somebody, how do you sell 'em another one? Yeah. And it is, and we're, we're cautious of that, 

Charles Benoit: right. We don't want to, and, and, you know, back to you, you asking me kind of the values, and same thing with Nick. It's all about innovation and performance, right? We don't do any, any product out there that's meant to last, last for a few months or mm-hmm.

Maybe for a year. Right. Everything we do is kind of top-notch quality and then that's meant to last for, for a lifetime. So that is part of our, our mindset for sure. 

travis: I remember when, uh, Glocks were first coming on the market. Mm-hmm. You probably remember, what was it? Die Hard where they [00:37:00] talk about a porcelain gun that's out there and all this misinformation.

But uh, yeah, people are like, why would I want to get a Glock? I mean, that thing's made plastic. I want to get something that's reliable, something made outta steel. And now you look at all the firearms out there mm-hmm. And all the modern ones that people are carrying, they were a polymer resin. 

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: The idea of this plastic fantastic, um, gun out there that can be as durable or more durable than a, uh, a steel frame or a traditional material.

Um, I think would that have been one of the challenges you guys have had in the past? Because I think most people, when they're looking at cases now, they're looking at, they're gonna be looking at a resin case. They're gonna be looking at a, uh, hard, heavy use, durable resin case. I don't see too many people going for metal cases that much anymore.

Charles Benoit: No. Yeah, you're right. And I think there's a, there's been a shift in the past few years on, on. People looking for, for good value products that last for a while, right? Uh, especially in the outdoor space. So I think more and more people wanna know what they're paying for will last. They're more cautious of [00:38:00] that, right?

Mm. Um, um, so, so for a player like us that has this type of offering, I think it makes sense. So I think with, yeah, with, with that shift now, more and more for, for, for value and for quality, uh, we, we, we, we fit in that, uh. Wheelhouse. 

travis: Very cool. Um, anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about?

Um, I. 

Charles Benoit: Um, no, I mean, maybe you mentioned about us, uh, kind of going what the vision stands for us. We're also looking at new, uh, bag collections for more, more consumer everyday. We're, we're launching a everyday carry. This is a, a scoop. We're launching this July. Uh, I can see one of the background here. Yeah.

EDC. Yeah. Well, we see folks that have, uh, we talk about working remote, you know, uh, like, like, like you do with, with your setup, right? Sure. And you bring your laptop or some folks that work from home, uh, two days a week. So carry their value boosts day in, day out, right? Yeah, totally. Uh, so, so, but, but really we felt in the market, no, really.

Uh, other, [00:39:00] uh, bag could kind of satisfy the fact that protect your equipment. So mobilize it. Yeah. Be timeless and still that fashion sense. So, so it comes in that nook where we're launching our, our, uh, our, our EDC line this summer. And that's just, you know, more of a, uh. Footprint for us or a step forward to having, as I mentioned earlier, more of the brand and more consumer's hands.

Uh, so for, for us, going to EDC is kind of a, a, a step toward that. 

travis: Yeah. And you got some more stylish ones too. You got a roll top I was looking at. Yeah. And a, uh, 

Charles Benoit: well, we have, we have three sides. We'll have a tote, a 26 liter, and, and the three five that you have here in front of you was more of a travel bag for like a three or four day.

26 liters more for a one two day travel and tow. It's kind of that urban, urban field. And we're also launching a new, uh, first aid kit. Um, that's, we did well. We did well with our empty first aids. Yes. Um, obviously having a package solution is obviously much more convenient for folks. So we're launching three sizes here for, for first aid, so that's pretty, a pretty cool launch too.

That's coming up in summer. 

travis: So the number of people [00:40:00] that reached out and contacted me who said, I love the first aid kit, where do I get all the guts for it? There 

Charles Benoit: you go. 

travis: There it is. Yeah. And they can get it with the guts. They can get it without the guts. They can supplement it how they want. Yeah. And, uh, put whatever 'cause it, you know, first it could, could be pretty personal, but for a lot of people, they, they don't put all of that thought into it.

They just want something that works, right. That they can pick up, they can go, they know it's protected and, and it works. So there it is. Yep. And when is that coming out? 

Charles Benoit: Well, actually, uh, just last week we just launched the first, the first wave in Canada. Uh, not available yet in the US so, but that, that just, just launched literally, uh, last week.

Um, no, but, but I, I'd love to hear about kinda your, your 2 cents about the industry, what's coming, uh, what's, what, you know, even whether the nick or not, it doesn't have to be, but what do, what do you see? Is there any shifts, uh, in the firearm hunting, uh, community? Like what, what are you seeing right now in the market?

travis: Yeah, I see things go through cycles, so, uh, I'm seeing. [00:41:00] Of course, COVID, I encouraged a lot of people to get outside, and with that, there's also an aesthetic to how people get outside. So what I'm seeing is a, a change in the aesthetic to how people, uh, uh, will interact with nature. Mm. Uh, it's one thing to have kit that'll get out there and it'll do the job.

It's another thing to have kit out there that says something about you. So that's sort of what I'm seeing as a shift in, uh, in the outdoor space is, uh. A higher emphasis on what a product says about the end user. Hmm. If it's core values, uh, align with the individual's core values. I mean, Simon Sinek, I, he, you probably are aware of him and his golden circle and the, uh, the why, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And how you build it out. But I think aside from being a very good salesman, because he is a good orator and a good salesman, but he's got a, uh, a keen insight into that. People want to get into products either because. This is one that they could afford as the [00:42:00] cheapest one out there is it's purely price point or more and more.

What I'm seeing is it's gonna be something that'll be around for a while. It says something about them. Mm-hmm. And it's, uh, got an aesthetic that speaks to them. Mm-hmm. So, so that would be, and, and that delves down into, um. Uh, like even just hunting camouflage colors, there's a greater emphasis towards, uh, neutral tones instead of camo patterns, because they used to be, well, you're not wearing this year's camouflage pattern.

You're totally out. Right. Right. So it's, um, and now it's, you got something, a more kind of nostalgic feel. Earth tones set. Hmm. Generations down the road can wear and still, uh, do the job. And I see that with, um, I, I look in your market as well. You're building things that are going to be around for a lifetime, for a generation.

So it's gotta look good, it's gotta be aesthetic, and it's got to, uh, it's gotta say something about the individual. Mm-hmm. Because the cases aren't, if you wanna buy a cheap case, that's gonna break the first time you use [00:43:00] it. These aren't them. Yep. They're gonna be a couple bucks to get 'em, but. It says something, you're making it with recycled materials that's gonna speak to a demographic of it.

Mm-hmm. It says, well, I care about, about those values. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, I think I mentioned earlier, we, we see that same shift, you know, con consumers asking for that type of product. Mm. Um, I mean, our, our challenge, not to bring it back to us, but it, it's to scale it, right? Sure. How do, how do you communicate?

I mean, and this is every kind of growing brand has the same challenge. Mm-hmm. Nothing, nothing new here. Um, um, but yeah, it's, it's a bit of a journey. I mean, we're, we're, we're confident that, you know, this is the best that's out there. It's, you know, making sure that more and more folks know about it, and then it's a magic recipe to, to promote that.

Right. 

travis: Well, I've, I've always been a firm believer, and mind you, I've done much smaller scale business, but I've never looked at the money. I've looked at the money. Mm-hmm. I've looked at the end user and the product and what are they getting? 

Charles Benoit: Yep. 

travis: What do they need? How do I give it to 'em? How do I give 'em the best possible way?

Mm-hmm. And I'm constantly looking, is there a better way? Right. What are [00:44:00] the core values? 'cause you never deviate from those core values. Yep, yep. And uh, it's like we bring new staff on, uh, general. Pat says, don't tell a person how to do something. Tell 'em what you'd like to see achieved. Let them surprise you with the results.

So I'll tell 'em the same thing I say, I'm not a micromanager. If you want somebody who's gonna be over top of you every single day, uh, giving you direction, um. Fair enough. Everyone's got different types. That's not gonna be my style. 

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: Uh, I'll be here to guide and help and ask questions, but I say General Patton's quote, and I say, the only caveats I put on there has gotta be legal and it's gotta be ethical.

Right. So don't surprise me in a way that's not legal, it's not ethical. And um, that way if we have the core values, like you're saying, if you know what it is you're aiming for as a team, uh. It makes her a much more productive work environment. Yeah, 

Charles Benoit: yeah, yeah. 

travis: How do you, I mean, how do you 

Charles Benoit: guide someone to the right product or, um, whether it's, you know, [00:45:00] firearms or kind of protective equipment.

What's, what's your kind of way of making sure that, that that person has the right product in their hand? 

travis: It always depends on how they ask me. So if they ask me what do I use? I'll tell 'em what I use and I'll ask if they wanna know why, right? Mm-hmm. Um, they might say yes, they might say no. Uh, if they say, what's the best thing for me?

Well, then there's gonna be a question period, right? Yeah, of course. Right? So, um, in, in guiding somebody forward, okay? I mean. I, I get it. When you're brand new to a, an activity, you're brand new to something, it's like, it, it can be overwhelming. 

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: It's like, I just want to go outside and hunt, let's say, or I just want to go out and fish, oh, what kind of fish are you looking for?

Are you fishing with gear? Are you fish on the fly? Right. Are you spay fishing? Are you single hand or you, and you just, you can get so granular in it. So I just, uh, I'll, I'll ask the person what it is that they're hoping to achieve. What do they, what do they like to do, and what is it, what is it they currently have?

And, and then I'll try and guide them in that direction down there. Mm-hmm. I'll, I'll [00:46:00] tend to tell why I use certain things. And then the reason why. So they can try and make a decision around there, but sometimes, I mean, not every pair of boots is gonna be the best. I've had people recommend boots to me and I've returned them immediately.

Right. I've had other ones where I hike down the mountain and when I take 'em off, aside from all the rain pouring out of 'em, they're just, just blood coming out. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, same with packs. Every pack's gonna be. Different for different people. Sure. So I, I think people get stuck in the what is the best.

Mm-hmm. And they can get the analysis paralysis on Google, the this versus this. Or ai. Or the ai. Right. Right. Tell me this versus this. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, and most expensive doesn't always mean the best. Mm-hmm. Uh, in like, we're doing courses and people say, well, this course is longer. It must be better.

Well, not necessarily. Mm-hmm. A length of time doesn't equal quality of instruction. Mm-hmm. Um, I remember I was called into the Justice Institute in BC to [00:47:00] audit their courses and they did, uh, a course over a couple of weeks. It was two courses that they put together as one course over a couple of weeks.

And the level, and it people loved it, the fact that they're going to the J but when they finish a course, there are a lot of negative reviews and they didn't know why. So that's what they called me into, uh, to help audit it. And the reality was that they just, their instructors were well-intentioned and well meaning, but they tried to drag something on longer with a whole bunch of misinformation and stuff that it didn't serve the end user.

Mm-hmm. So there, there's a balance that needs to 

Charles Benoit: be found. Sense. Yeah. I think we're in the same mindset as to. Trying to figure out whether the small things that make people tick, right. And that, uh, and, and, and making sure we put the right proc in, in the right hand. So it's, it's, it's, it's always, uh, especially when you're, as you're growing, is obviously a bigger, bigger fan base, bigger consumer base you're trying to serve.

So I think it's, it's, it's always making sure that. That people are, are served properly. 

travis: You brought up something funny. So you said you looked at ai, [00:48:00] we to, you know, get into this podcast. Yeah. Get a, come up with a couple questions. So of course I did the same thing and I'm like, yeah, gimme a psychographic and what profile?

And put this whole thing together. I was told by somebody else, you're talking about the, the future of AI in dating apps. 

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: And they say you can create. An avatar that has all of your likes and personality. Mm-hmm. And all your profile. And your AI avatar can have a conversation with the other person's AI avatar, and if they have a good interaction, then maybe you two might want to talk in person.

Wow. I'm like, no, thanks. So, so we could be having two AI avatars having a podcast here. I mean, 

Charles Benoit: probably, right. I mean, I mean the, the aisle probably know so much about the brand and about the person, you know. Sure. So in some ways, yeah. I mean, that's kind of the. That is scary. Hey, we'd probably have it in the metaverse and then we'd be, uh, the whole, the whole experience.

travis: I think it's all those imperfections though that make up the, um, yeah, uh, the [00:49:00] interaction, I mean this human factor that we're having right now. Yeah. Like I'll, I'll record podcasts through, uh, apps and all online and I gotta edit 'em afterwards. 'cause there's like a five second delay. Mm-hmm. Or someone says something funny and then someone else starts talking and then five seconds a laugh comes in and.

There's a disconnect. Mm-hmm. You don't have this real connection of the, the temperature in the room. Right. The, the real human. And I think as creatures, we need that. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Yeah. 

travis: I, I, I really do. In the same way that looking at a picture of the forest has been shown to help bring a person's stress down.

Mm-hmm. Being in the forest actually brings it down a heck of a lot more. Right. Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I agreed. I think, I mean, one of the core values we have here at the Nick as well is, is our people. And I think to nurture that, it's, it's kind, it's become more of a, I wouldn't say a science, but harder to do so.

Right. Again, with, with more and more, uh, ways to disconnect now and being online. And so I think as a, as a, as a leader, as, as a, as a company, you almost have to [00:50:00] force that. Connection, the human connection more so than ever. You know, I could have this talk on teams, right? It could have, I mean, I'm sure you do have some, sometimes it's more, it's, it's easier 'cause you have some people traveling.

You're traveling. Yeah. But as you said, to have that in person I think is, is it just can't be replicated. I. 

travis: I find people have pushback to that because people start building up anxiety over social interactions. Yeah. And, uh, trying to force an event can be like, okay, like I've done that before. Okay, we're having a barbecue, we're doing stuff, and everyone's like, you're having a, like how do you make those human events something that.

You, you either find the right team, right? Or like how do you do it? Like is you've, you've got a bunch of people here that are working with 

Charles Benoit: you. I, yeah. Maybe fortunate to, we have like a smaller team, so I, I've, I've at least here at Dynamic, we haven't had that challenge to, uh, having folks want, not want to be present.

Right? Hmm. If anything, they all almost seems to be a. Not a craving, but like a desire to have that human connection. Right. And then, and it's more of, of the team that, that we have right now. But, but you're [00:51:00] right though that now, unfortunately, more and more folks have that social anxiety. And I think you, you definitely have to consider that in the mix, right?

I, I, I said forcing people to come together. I would never force somebody who's not comfortable. You said it, it's on the record, could not want to be in a social environment to go, right. Yes. Yes. I think it's maybe that the right word is not forcing, but encouraging. It's creating those, those spaces, those events you talked about.

Uh, Tim Cook, I remember reading. And Steve Jobs, uh, uh, uh, biography where the way that he's, he's designed the new, uh, apple headquarters. It's very, it's, it's, it's a massive center. Mm-hmm. Or circle, excuse me. And then, but then wherever you go, you always have to cross this, this center, uh, uh, of the office. I might be misquoting it, but I, I'm really sure that, but even, even though that makes sense.

So how can you encourage folks to at least interact? You, you don't want to create necessarily a massive linear building where you stay in your cubicle. In and out. Right? Right. How can you have ways to, you're not, again, you're not forcing 'em to go to a room and to [00:52:00] interact, but. You know, a coffee machine is, is a classic, but how can you have folks that maybe not work in, in the same department interact with each other?

Yeah. So, you know, it creates some paths to, to just to encourage it. That's social design through 

travis: architecture. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Yeah. 

travis: But pretty much Right, totally is. It's like you a high risk neighborhood and they blast, uh, classical music outside or they, yeah. They set places up where you don't really have any blind spots or people.

Right. And, and crime gets reduced. Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. So I think, I think it's our job to, to at least think of that, right? 'cause people by nature likely will be more, you know, they're not even anxious, but more in their own bubble. And I think today's human nature is not as, as prompt to. Talk to a stranger at coffee shop.

Right. And no, 

travis: not not in North America. Yeah. 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Un unfortunately. So, so I think, I think it's, it's our job, whether it's at work or in our communities or our family, to, to, to, yeah. Encourage in, in any way we can. I. 

travis: I think so, I think that's a, uh, an important thing [00:53:00] to, uh, to try and raise awareness of whether through example or through talking about it.

I mean, I keep going back to that Harvard study, 80 years longest study on happiness. Mm-hmm. That was ever been done. They came back, they followed people through all different demographics, psychographics, ethnicities, religious backgrounds, whatever. And they said the number one predictor of happiness in all of these people is strong social connections.

Yeah. And the, uh, our, our current social media and the way that it's set up is specifically designed in a way to, um, monopolize your time front of the screen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're socializing, it's by you texting back and forth and you get, oh, they said hi back, or they gave me a like, or they liked, whatever it may be.

It's a relationship now. Yeah. Right. And it totally isn't. And you're just seeing the best parts of people, or in some times the worst parts. 'cause people are just complaining, whatever it might be, but it's not the real parts. Mm-hmm. Because the real parts are somewhere in between that it's not always [00:54:00] gonna be terrible.

It's not always gonna be fantastic. 

Charles Benoit: Mm-hmm. 

travis: Uh, you're gonna trip and fall and you're gonna get up again. And like that's, that's life. That's reality. And yeah. I, I, I think that's a. I, you know what? That is an important part about what I'm trying to do with the Silver Court Club, right. And with the podcast is to be able to just encourage people to get outside.

Yeah. Encourage people to go out and put the screens down for a bit or interact with each other. Mm-hmm. And you've done a great 

Charles Benoit: job, right? I mean, it's ultimately a big community that you're building that's like-minded folks. And um, um. Yeah. I mean, to have that, I think human connection and creating that space, uh, I think is crucial.

Uh, and you, so you, so kudos to you, you know, and doing your part in the, uh, well, it's always a, it's a work 

travis: in progress. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Got, got a lot of really good people on board, which I'm really fortunate like you here. Right, right. Like you here 

Charles Benoit: Yeah. Partners, I think, and, and back to. You, you saying, you know, the importance of folks choosing a brand, understanding what they stand for, I think is we're in that same mindset to find partners that are like-minded, right?

That share the [00:55:00] same values, uh, and that have a, you know, kind of a partnership to, to continue and grow those communities and, and. We think all for the better, right? 

travis: It's one of these things and I, I've had a difficult time navigating that one. 'cause I value the relationship more than I value the money that comes out of it, because I've long since learned that success, happiness, uh, money, whatever you want, uh, put on there.

Is a byproduct of a strong relationship. Mm-hmm. It's not the other way around. Yeah. You don't have a strong relationship because the money's really good, or I mean, some of the worst times, number one, if there's no money coming in, it can bring out the worst in people. If there's lots of money coming in, watch out even worse.

Right. 

Charles Benoit: No, I 

travis: should never be 

Charles Benoit: the, the driver of, of, of a relationship. Right, right. Same thing for, I mean, friends and family and it's never a good mix. 

travis: So I've always had a difficult time with that where it's just like, you know what? I'm not even gonna bother looking at the money. I'm not looking. Look, what can we develop together?

Mm-hmm. [00:56:00] Does it fuel what I want to do? Does it make me feel good? And I don't know, uh, let the accountants deal with the rest of it. Sure, sure. I know it, it seems to work out. Yeah. If you, if you put your head and heart into building a quality product and having quality relationships, the rest kind of unfolds as it should.

Yeah. And if they're not, if you, all of a sudden those twins has come up and it's just not the right you can try and course correct. Mm-hmm. Or yeah. Okay. May, maybe this isn't, we're not on the same course anymore. Yeah. Don't force it. Right. Yeah, I like that. Here we are. And here we are. I love it. Okay. Um, anything else AI say?

Anything else that I should be asking? No, no, no, no. You're good. You're good. No, I think, uh, yeah, I 

Charles Benoit: mean I've, I've covered all my, what's in my head. Okay. Well thanks for this. It's fun. 

travis: Thank you very much. I really enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, [00:57:00] likewise.