"He Left Med School to Live Wild in Alaska | Rick Matney of Chrome Chasers"

Silvercore Podcast 171: Rick Matney of Chrome Chasers Lodge [00:00:00] Travis Bader: Today's episode is brought to you by Armament Technology. They've come out with their brand new SAI optics 3M OA micro red.site. This thing is IPX six seven rated. It's lightweight, compact, robust, durable, and it's wicked for rapid target acquisition. Make sure you're following Armament technology on social media as well as Silver Core and Social media for your chance to win one of these for yourself. Now, if you're a Silver Core Club member, you've likely already heard of today's guest because Rick and I sat down and we recorded an exclusive podcast episode for the Outpost. The outpost is the Silver Core Club Private Members podcast. If you're already a member and you're not [00:01:00] listening to the outpost, log in to your club member portal. Choose Silver Core ca, get your unique link, put it into your podcast provider each and every week about short, motivational, inspirational, educational episodes where I'll sit down and talk, or I'll have guests on to provide their perspective to help Silver Core Club members in all aspects of their life. Finally, here's my ask to you. It would mean a great deal if you're able to leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, and in fact, if you take a screenshot of the review that you leave and you email that to info@silvercore.ca with your mailing address, I'll send you some Silver Core stickers as a thank you. Now without further ado, let's get on with today's episode. Today we're in Alaska with a man who, along with his wife, Dory, built chrome chasers guiding on some of the wild areas in the state. He's a licensed Coast Guard captain with a degree in [00:02:00] cell biology, a lifelong outdoorsman, and a part of the meat eater crew known for his conservation minded approach to fishing and harvest. Welcome to the Silver Corps podcast, Rick Matney. How you doing, Travis? Pretty good. It's, it's not like we haven't spent the whole last week together. That's, again, I say it time and again. Never talk with somebody about all the things you want to talk about on the podcast prior to the podcast, but I've broken the cardinal rule. We spent the last week on your boat. Amazing boat, by the way. Uh, in beautiful wrangle Alaska. Foraging fishing, uh, looking for mushrooms. We didn't get some clams in, but, uh, tides didn't quite cooperate on that one. Yep. Um, hiking, checking out streams, uh, it, it's been absolutely amazing up here. And eating like kings, I must say. Is that what Chrome chasers is all about? Because that's what I'm seeing. [00:02:55] Rick Matney: Yeah, yeah. Basically. I mean, you're, we're just sinking, sinking everyone [00:03:00] into Alaska. I mean, just burying, burying yourselves right into the, the heart and soul of it. So it's everything that people have done for hundreds and thousands of years up here to survive. And now we get to do it for kind of fun in a way. So, [00:03:12] Travis Bader: you know, I, I've never been to Alaska before. I've always wanted to be, and I gotta say that this has far exceeded my expectations for what I thought Alaska could be. Yeah. Uh. Can you just paint a picture for us of Wrangle Alaska and kind of, uh, anybody who hasn't been here, what they can expect to see? [00:03:33] Rick Matney: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of situated kind of in the center part of Southeast Alaska on the inside passage way to the inside at the mouth of the stick river. Um, historically it's, you know, had a lot of significance for the fur trapping industry. Um, to start with, after that, the cannery industry for seafood and salmon for shipping fish out. So it's got a lot of history. It's one of, uh, it's been flown into three different flags. The British have owned it, the Russians have owned it, and the Clints have owned it and now flow flown into the US [00:04:00] flag. And so it's got a lot of rich history for, uh, Alaskan General and specifically southeast Alaska. It's a temperate rainforest for the most part. It's pretty mild. It is in the Tonga National Forest. It's the largest rainforest in the Northern Hemisphere, so we do get a lot of rain. As we found out this week, we got hammered this week by, by Mother Nature. Uh, [00:04:20] Travis Bader: it wasn't that bad though. I mean, for the amount of rain that we. Yeah, you get, and you said like, this is unusual. Look at how much rain we're getting. I mean, we still have periods throughout the day where it's dry and Oh, for sure it's warm. And I, I was bundled up and I'm like, I'm throwing extra stuff in my backpack. 'cause we're. Despite being wet. Uh, you don't really didn't I did personally. I didn't really notice it. [00:04:42] Rick Matney: Yeah. You know, y you get used to it for sure. Um, you know, historically this time of year we don't see a ton of rain. Mm. Um, the one thing that's very surprising about the inside passage and it's Southeast Alaska on the inside, is how calm it can be. Mm-hmm. Looking outside today, you're not seeing that. You know, we have a hurricane [00:05:00] warning. Yeah. That I've, you know, of all the years I've been here, I've seen that. I think this is the third time I've ever seen that pop up on Noah. Um, but, uh, but yeah, you know, you know, the weather is typically very nice, very mild. Uh, the oceans are very flat. Uh, you know, for the most part, our entire season we had two months of glass water straight. Mm. You know, we had maybe one or two days where there was one to two foot seas. Other than that, it's, I mean, it was pancake mirrored flat off glass the whole time. So that's super, super rare in a lot of ocean conditions. And it's something that a lot of the inside passage has in southeast Alaska, which makes it very pleasant. [00:05:36] Travis Bader: Yeah. I, I mean, when it was blowing around the corner, we could still get out and get crab traps and prawn traps. Mm-hmm. And we could still get out to the different streams. Although with the amount of rain we had, the streams were a little bit higher, which, uh, made things interesting. But despite all that, we're pulling out silvers as the Americans call 'em, or Cohos Cohos as, as Canadians call 'em, uh, which are sitting in the smoker right now, which is, uh, about, uh, 30 [00:06:00] yards from us as we're, uh, recording inside. Oh, for sure. Um, I mean, there's, there's a little bit of everything and it's, it is very unusual to find a place like this mm-hmm. Where it's not so, um, singularly focused, I find. And the other f part that I found was quite interesting is despite the rain, despite the wind, there's still plenty of things that we can do out here. Oh, for sure. You know, there, [00:06:27] Rick Matney: it's, it's almost unlimited. Um. The Tlingit, uh, nation down here. They had a, a village down south of town here about, uh, 10 miles. We went right by it, it's called Found Island. Mm-hmm. You know, that supported a, a village size of between two and 3000 people. And they never had to go more than five miles from town to support a village of that many people. So the fer, the fertility and the, and the diversity of what everything that you could use to eat and survive on here, it doesn't take a lot of land or a lot of area to have more than what you could ever [00:07:00] use. And so it's such a fertile environment that has so many different facets and options that, uh, no matter what mother nature throws at you, you can still go do something to harvest something, to, to, to eat or whatever else. And it gives you a lot of options. [00:07:15] Travis Bader: So what I found was really interesting. So it was April Vokey mutual friend of ours. Mm-hmm. Her and her family is up here right now, me and my family. And, um. And she was telling me all about you. And I would listen to some of your other, uh, podcasts and read some of the work that you've done. And you came from a highly educated background. Yeah. Of, uh, look like you're going down a path through university, the Laureate Elite, as they say. And you just made a little bit of a right turn right off of that. [00:07:47] Rick Matney: Yeah. [00:07:47] Travis Bader: I [00:07:47] Rick Matney: took a pretty [00:07:47] Travis Bader: hard [00:07:48] Rick Matney: right turn. Yeah. [00:07:49] Travis Bader: So what was that about? [00:07:50] Rick Matney: Um, well, you know, I. I was valedictorian, go, uh, growing up through, uh, in high school. Um, I got to do a lot of stuff and as long as I kept a 4.0, my mom let me do some [00:08:00] skiing and motocross racing. A bunch of other weird things, uh, that most kids didn't get to do at my age. Went to college. College was easy for me. Um, ended up, uh, getting a couple degrees in college. Uh, I was on my way out to med school. And while I was in college, I worked as a, uh, fishing guide, uh, trout fishing guide. And I did a little bit of hunting guiding towards the back end as well. And I had two fishing clients that heard I was gonna head off the med school and they came to Bozeman. They were from Billings, and they sat me down and, uh, put a blank piece of paper on the table and said, write down while you wanna be a doctor. Mm-hmm. And I thought I had it all figured out, you know, I was well on my way out the door and, well, what did [00:08:36] Travis Bader: you write down for why you wanted to be a doctor? [00:08:38] Rick Matney: I basically said it was always expected of me. Mm-hmm. I was good at math and science. I got my degree in it. This is, you know, obviously what I'm supposed to be doing 'cause this is what I'm good at. And, but really I just want to have enough money to hunt and fish all over the world. And with Audi, after I said that at the last, they read what I put down and they took the paper and flipped it over and they said, write down what you do now. Mm-hmm. [00:09:00] And at the time I was doing hosted trips to La Paz, you know, I was just getting pretty heavy into the guiding end of things, both hunting and fishing, mostly fishing, uh, and traveling all over. Mm-hmm. Uh, with hunting and fishing and guiding in three different places and that kind of thing. And, and they said, you're, you're doing what we want to do after we retire. Mm-hmm. He's like, you're living our job. Or, or our dream too. I mean, if, if that's what you really want and that's what you're passionate about. And if medicine isn't your number one passion, you shouldn't do it. And they, they talked me outta going to med school, um, right then and there. I mean, it, it didn't even take that much convincing. What'd the family think about that? My mom was not impressed. My mom has a couple of PhDs and, uh, to her, you know, uh, if you stop at a bachelor's degree, that's like, uh, I might, I might as well have got a GED and dropped outta high school or something to her. So, um, so yeah, you know, it's, it was a choice I made. I, I went and took all the basically effort that I was putting in money and everything that I'd saved up for med school, and that's how I started, [00:10:00] uh, Chrome chasers. You know, I, those guys said, Hey, find something you're passionate about. Figure out what it is that you want to do and just go for it. You know, like, I mean, we, we know that medicine's not your number one, but we've been rolled down a river with you in a drift boat for four 40 days before we know we know what you're about. And, and medicine, isn't it? [00:10:19] Travis Bader: Well, did you have a bit of a roadmap as to where you're going? Or was it just one big question mark? I mean, if you're going through medical school, there's a program in place and there's expectations and there's a, there's a, a shared understanding of what you're doing to be successful. Correct. In the medical industry and in the, in the hunting, fishing, outdoor industry. Uh, not a roadmap. I don't know if you can say the same thing. It's very, it's, uh, it's rather eclectic. [00:10:47] Rick Matney: Yeah. There's definitely not a path that you, you know, is like, okay, here's what you need to do to, to have a successful fishing lodge. You need to go here, start with this, learn how to do all these things, and go, and, you know, that. That's not mapped out. [00:11:00] And I didn't even know that fishing was what I wanted to do to, to an extent. You know? I mean, I was still into the hunting world pretty heavily at that point in time. And, you know, I've had to survive in different circumstances in a guide aspect. Um, where I was running an outfitter camp in Montana, we had a wall tent, I had to cook for clients and everything else. I got one grocery run a week, so I had to learn how to cook in the woods. Sure. And, and forage for what I couldn't get in my one week, uh, once a week grocery run kind of deal. And so all of this kind of compounded together to kind of form what it became today, uh, up here, which basically a lifetime of outdoor experience that I try to share with people that come up here, if that makes sense. [00:11:43] Travis Bader: Well, it's kind of a cheat code honestly, for somebody who's new to the outdoors, who hasn't been, uh, hunting, fishing, foraging, uh, just trapping. Trapping, yeah. And when you're trapping, you really learn the land. Yeah, for sure. I mean, in a way that people who hunt and fish are only [00:12:00] scratching the surface, it seems. You start getting into trapping and it's just a whole different level. Like there are levels to all this. Oh, for sure. Um, and you, you know, I, I would have to think that anybody on the outside who's never been to Alaska, who wants to be able to experience a lifestyle that this is a cheek hold to tap into somebody. Who's been there and who's done it and can help guide them down that path. [00:12:26] Rick Matney: Yeah, for sure. You know, and, and I learned from, you know, my dad and, you know, he learned from his dad and I, I grew up in a family and, you know, multiple generations of trapping and logging and, and living outside. Right. You know, we didn't have a town close to us. Uh, all of, all of our own animals. We butchered, you know, we butchered everything we ate for domestic animals, plus we lived off of deer, elk, you know, everything else. So my, my background. Is is is not just my experience, but it's, you know, the generation in front of me as well that was built off of. So, and that's [00:12:56] Travis Bader: the hardest thing for most people. Mm-hmm. Most people don't have that mentorship. Correct. [00:13:00] They want get into the outdoors, they wanna learn to hunt, or they wanna learn how to fish properly. Mm-hmm. Or they want to even just start foraging e I'm surprised at the number of people who are afraid to go a few steps out into a wooded area mm-hmm. Because they feel they might get lost or they, they're un unprepared. Or bears. Bears, it's always bears. That's right. Always bears. It's, they watch that movie Cocaine bear too many times. And there's some rabid, monstrous bear is gonna be lurking around every tree. Um, or the ocean. It's always sharks, right? Yep. Um, I, I, I see that as being a huge detractor for people going outside. For you. So you had generations of that sort of Yeah. Environment that it kind of came in, but did, how about the foraging? Was your, we met your father. Yep. Uh, Mike. Mm-hmm. Was he into [00:13:49] Rick Matney: foraging? [00:13:50] Travis Bader: Was, [00:13:50] Rick Matney: you know. Yeah. And it was something we never talked about growing up. It's, you know, every now and again, we'd go by and we'd see, we'd be up, you know, checking a logging stand, uh, running some of our [00:14:00] logging programs when I was younger and we'd see a bunch of shaggy manes on the side of the road. He'd just pull over and start grabbing 'em, and I'd jump out and grab 'em. And I, dad, dad, what are these? He's like, oh, they're shaggy mane mushrooms. That was the last thing that was said about it. Okay. We brought 'em home, we ate 'em. Um, so I mean, it was just, it was just something you did, you know, you, you're in the woods all the time when you find opportunities, you know, like fungus and mushrooms or huckleberries or whatever it is. And it's like, you know, one day. I remember my, my grandpa, it was me and my grandpa and my dad. We were up at our cabin in the sell Kirks. And, uh, we ended up, uh, breaking down. And while we were broke down and we had, uh, a radio to one of the log truck drivers to bring a starter up, uh, we were picking huckleberries and it's like, well, what are we gonna do with all these huckleberries? Well, we'll make jelly that way. We have jelly for the winter. And it was just, you always kind of had that in the back burner of stuff. So it was never like, it was a chore where it was like, okay, today we're going to get huckleberries for jelly. I mean, sometimes we'd do that. Sure. Um, but for the most part, you know, it was just like, okay, we need to get this to make this for this later. [00:15:00] And it was just sort of a way of life and it really went, kind of almost unsaid, uh, growing up. And, and because of that, you, you learned what you could and couldn't eat and, and things of that nature. [00:15:10] Travis Bader: Does it become a chore when you, uh, start guiding as, as a living and you're taking other people out, like it? Is it, I know you do the fishing a lot more now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, you started in the hunting world. Mm-hmm. Does it become, uh, you know, everyone says never, never make your love your business, right? Yeah. It, it, does that happen? [00:15:30] Rick Matney: No. I mean, it's never a chore. So, b you know, before when I was, you know, doing different, you know, camps where I'd have to, to forge to get stuff for meals, it was a chore then, because I didn't tell anyone I was going out and doing it. I just did it and brought it back, you know, and we get done. It's like, well, where'd these mushrooms come from? It's like, oh, I picked them out over the, you know, down off the other side of the hill and brought 'em back. And they're like, oh man, these are really good. What kind are they? Well, well, it's a bette, you know, it's, you know, these are a portini like you'd see in the store, except they grow out here in the wild too. And so I, [00:16:00] I, I almost was private about it to the point where I didn't think anyone else would want to do it. And then as I got older, I realized that other people. Also had the desire to know what they could and couldn't eat in the woods. And so it, it became, to me it was a chore early on. And now it's almost, it's fun for me because no one ever really told me why we were doing it. We just did it. Right. And, and now it's, it's little bit easier for me to make it more palatable for other people and more confident for them to go into the woods and be like, okay, these are things I can eat. These are things we can harvest. Here's how to tell, you know, this is completely safe. You're not gonna, this isn't going to kill you. Um. And it's more fun. So it's actually more fun for me now to do what, you know, years ago I would consider a semi chore. [00:16:45] Travis Bader: Okay. So while we've been here, we've eaten some world class food, some world class meals, uh, that was from your grandfather and father as well, or what? No, now that they're meat potatoes, guys. Um, okay. So, uh, [00:17:00] what I'm curious about is the learning process, because you didn't just have all of this stuff through osmosis. At some point you started stepping off and really started pushing forward. [00:17:08] Rick Matney: Yeah, [00:17:08] Travis Bader: yeah. You [00:17:08] Rick Matney: know, the, the cooking thing, it was born outta necessity and then fine tuned over. Over years. You know, I'm a fat kid at heart and I love trying new stuff. And so a lot of it came with just experimentation and everything else. But, um, I had, uh, working down in Hawaii at a place, we had a private chef from Australia that would come down and, um, you know, he, he kind of took me under his wing, you know, he saw that I, I really had. A desire to cook a bunch of d especially unique dishes and different things right. Way outside of, uh, a little country kid's repertoire. And, and he really helped me out with the technical aspect of everything. And, and kind of how that started is, is we were down doing one of our little hosted kind of trips, uh, and he ended up getting sick and couldn't do the big seven course meal mm-hmm. For the lodge. And he, you know, I, the owner of the. Owner of the [00:18:00] ranch said, Hey, I need you to step up. He was like, you're, you're the next closest guy. We have to a chef here. It's time for you to step up and do a lay out a seven course meal. [00:18:08] Travis Bader: And you're like, yeah, not a problem. Or were you like, holy crap. [00:18:10] Rick Matney: I was a little nervous because the clientele we had, there were some very high end individuals, okay. Uh, and, uh, very well traveled world. A bunch of famous people. And so it was a pretty, it was a little bit of a shock to be like, okay, it's my job now, you know? And I had, you know, the sous chef was still there that could help me out. And I was like, all right. And I went through the freezer, was looking at all the different stuff we had to make. We had, you know, wild shock grouse from England, we had octopus from Spain. We had all this stuff that I'd never done. Anything with. Yeah. But I had two axis deer in the freezer or in the cold storage that I'd shot the day before. And I was like, well, I know how to cook deer. Mm-hmm. And so I ended up doing, uh, a coffee rubbed backstrap, uh, dish. Um, I did a, uh, a tar tar axis. Deer tar tar. Let's see, what else did I cook? I I I, I did seven [00:19:00] different meals, all with access deer. 'cause that was, that's what I know. I know deer. You know, that's, I've grown up my whole life cooking and eaten deer. And so the next day, um, the, the chef. You know, they were sneaking him dishes as I was pumping 'em out that night. And he's testing them as they go. He's testing 'em as they go, and the next day he's like, Hey, you really gotta, you got a gift for this? He's like, I mean, obviously you've never been to culinary school. Yeah. You'd have no idea what the fundamentals are. You can't pronounce half the words, uh, you know, that you need to for French cuisine, which is fine. And he's like, you don't know any of the kitchen gadgets or nothing, but you definitely have a knack for putting stuff together. He's like, he's like, I can help you. And he's like, let, let me just, let me fa He fast tracked me through culinary school, I mean, within the course of a couple of weeks, you know, I had stuff that a lot of people would take, you know, years of practice to do as, as far as emulsification, sauces, everything, you know, [00:19:55] Travis Bader: and, and now you've got restaurants around the world, people calling you up and saying, Hey, I'm gonna steal one of your [00:20:00] recipes. Yeah. Is that okay? [00:20:00] Rick Matney: Yeah. Every now and again. Yeah. I had a guy in New York, uh, he called me up and he is like, Hey, I, I saw this recipe on meat eater. I saw that I could download it. I got it. And, um. I made it and it was amazing, and I wanna serve it at my restaurant, would that be okay? And I said, absolutely. You know, and he put a little, little blurp on there with my name on it that I developed it and stuff like that. And so, yeah, it's, um, it's grown quite a bit. You know, I, I never saw myself as being anyone that should be known for cooking. You know, I, you know, I've, I've just a fishing guide, you know, I'm a fishing guide that just lives in the woods. [00:20:33] Travis Bader: Probably one of the hardest working fishing guides I've ever seen. Because you're up early in the morning. Yeah. You're planning the day, the day's gonna be different depending on what the weather's doing. Mm-hmm. What the reports are. And um, then when you're back, you're in the kitchen and you're cooking. And I mean, that, that's not usual, is it? Like, I don't, I haven't been with a lot of guides, but that's not the No, [00:20:54] Rick Matney: yeah. I mean, guides will do shore lunch, you know, that's like a big thing for a guide to do a shore lunch, that's one [00:21:00] thing. But to do breakfast, lunch, and dinner, um, and then rack out. You know, a fairly complex dinner at night after being out on the ocean all day, or being in a cri all day and everything else. It's, it's a lot. No, I wouldn't say it's common. Uh, but I'm also pretty particular about, uh, an experience. It's like there's no reason why I shouldn't do the best job possible. Hmm. If I can find someone that can do just as good a job as me on any aspect of that, great. I'll hire them. But I just can't, I mean, I wasn't happy with, you know, with the way some of the other, you know, other people I've hired over the years could do the fishing guiding. So that means I had to do it, you know, and it's like, well, here's dinner, you know, and now the corn's overdone, or something's, you know, the broccoli's mush or something like that. Well, I'm not happy with that. Let me do that too. Mm. And so it's almost that. Maybe I'm just too type A and it's like, it needs to be this way. I was like, it's perfectionist. I know how it needs to be and if it can't be that way, I need to do it. And so, I mean, that's where we're here today. So yeah, unfortunately I'm a, I'm my own worst enemy. I [00:21:59] Travis Bader: [00:22:00] love it. And just, I saw the flash outta the corner of my eye and you hear the thunder rolling in right now, and it's kind of nice that we're sitting in this, in the nice warm lodge and not out there in the water today. [00:22:10] Rick Matney: She's a little rough out there today. Oh yeah. [00:22:13] Travis Bader: Tell me about me Eater. How did you get involved with them? [00:22:15] Rick Matney: Um, you know, I just started out, uh, I'm an independent contractor with them. I just help with some of the culinary things, the cooking things, um, when they moved to Bozeman. Uh, they had a couple of guys that were working for 'em as contributors. Uh, that didn't work out. They ended up having a little space open and I threw my, kind of just threw my hat in the ring. I had some mutual friends that worked there, that got hired on. They kind of, you know, went to bat for me, so to speak. Sure. And so, yeah, I, I just do some con uh, cooking contributions for them, some recipes and things like that. Uh, don't do near as much as I do now. Uh, or I used to, back when they pre COVID, I, we were kind of ramping up the cooking thing quite a bit. And then when COVID hit, they, we shut the office down, weren't going and doing as many YouTube videos coming in because of the pandemic kind of situation. And it never [00:23:00] really did. The culinary side never really took off again after that. Per se as much they, they kind of started focusing on their trivias and Midwest white tails, and they kind of went down a different path. And the cooking, the cook cooking kind of got pushed a little bit to the back burner. Um, but there's still a lot of great cooking content those guys put out. You can Oh, for sure. You can type my name into the search bar. You'll find a bunch of the stuff that I've done with them and everything else. And so [00:23:23] Travis Bader: I always think that cooking is just that gateway for people who don't fish. Mm-hmm. Who don't hunt. Who don't forage. But I, I, you're hard pressed to find people who don't like good food. Right. Yeah, for sure. And it, that's the little wedge point that'll get somebody who's like, I don't know, but this hunting thing mm-hmm. Just out there slaughtering Bambi or fishing, I don't know. Um, that, that's typically I find the, the point where you can introduce people to things that they wouldn't otherwise be introduced to and kinda get 'em outside. [00:23:53] Rick Matney: Yeah. It opens the door, you know, it's like, you know, they've had the domestic flam, mignon or whatever it is, and it's like, that's great. [00:24:00] I, I have turned so many people into. Uh, hunt curious, I guess is the best way to put it. Sure. Um, with axi deer, you know, it's such a mild, gentle, easy, palatable meat. And they're like, well, how do I get one? And I was like, well, can I buy it? And I was like, no, you gotta go kill one. Mm-hmm. And, and suddenly it, the, the, you know, the light bulb goes off. It's like that's why people hunt is 'cause they like eating it. And it's, a lot of times that connection's not made. And, and until you've had it prepared. Well, you know, a lot of times what, what, what's your grandpa's, you know, venison stew where they boil it for four hours and it turns into a leather boot. And a lot of people have childhood memories of that, um, especially, you know, a generation back. And it's just horrific. And they, they aren't aware of how good wild game actually can be until they've had it done well and then all of a sudden then now hunting seems to be a little more palatable for them. Is, is the next step. Yeah. And you're looking [00:24:53] Travis Bader: forward to the food, you're looking forward to treating it in a way that's gonna make for a fine end product For sure. [00:25:00] You know, talking. There's another flash there. I don't know if [00:25:04] Rick Matney: I've ever seen lightning here before. [00:25:06] Travis Bader: Well, I was mentally counting down between the flashes. Yeah, you're seeing that. Is it getting closer? Is it further? It's right there. Right there. Um, you were, we were talking before about some of the famous people that you've been guiding mm-hmm. And you've, uh, been working with and you see all types. Yeah. I mean, some, some clients that come in that are just top shelf clients that come in that probably if I were you, if I had hair, I'd be pulling my hair out. Right. Uh, it. It seems to me that the life of a guide is gonna be a pretty stressful one. Mm-hmm. Because you're trying to find new people, new personalities, um, you are then trying to find a way to communicate to them. So you're a bit of a communication expert of what, what they're gonna like or what they aren't. You're a bit of a psychologist, uh, getting 'em through stuff over missing. Yep. An animal, missing a [00:26:00] fish. Having to work hard to get into a remote area is gonna be challenging for some people and they're not quite mentally prepared for it. It sounds like there's a, um. A spectrum. Yes. And, and there's a bit of a dice roll when you go into it where you don't actually know who you're gonna be getting. [00:26:17] Rick Matney: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, you know, that's one of the funnest parts about guiding for me, is meeting new people, having, having set expectations and unset expectations and trying to manage and juggle all that. Mm. Um, my wife always makes fun of me. She's like, you're only concerned about something if it's on fire. Mm. And, and it's, I, I don't know if I embrace the chaos, you know, I kind of like having some of those unknowns. I, I, I like challenges, you know, if everything went smoothly and I could predict exactly what was gonna happen and how people were gonna react, you know, when they shot their first animal or something like that. Sure. It wouldn't be fun to me. [00:26:51] Travis Bader: Yeah. You know, [00:26:52] Rick Matney: and I, I love the, uh, the unknown aspect about it. And that's one of the things that keeps me interested in it, um, is just having that, [00:27:00] that wild card out there at all times. [00:27:02] Travis Bader: I think some people, they get into a guided experience 'cause they want to be pampered and they want someone to take care of them or do everything for them. And, you know, that's, that's never been my thing. Like I've, yep. I've, I've been with some fishing guides and they basically, they'll set hooks for you. They basically play the, and, and I'm like, come on. Like I know how to operate a down rigger. I know how to set a hook. I know how to do these things and you know, what if I don't and I mess it up and then, then I'm learning. Right? Yeah, for sure. And I think, uh, other people get into it like myself. I want to be with someone who I can, I can learn from and I can learn how they do it. Like mm-hmm. You're, I, I've cooked crabs my entire life and it's interesting seeing the way that you cook crabs. Yeah. And it's a lot of similarities in there. Um, I've, uh, watching different ways you do things, but what I really like about your style is you're okay letting people fail. Mm-hmm. You're not right over their shoulder micromanaging. 'cause I [00:28:00] absolutely hate that. Yeah. Um, is, um, I, not that I've been to a lot of different guides, but, uh, well, let's say on, uh, Molokai for example. Mm-hmm. Uh, I went out and did a wrecky a couple days ahead of time of the area that I was gonna be checking out and we're gonna be hunting. And I was checking out what the, uh, the deer movement looked like, the access deer and. And that was, that would've been my first and only guided hunt that I've ever had. And we go on out there with the, the guide, and he just gets up in this vehicle, he drives along. I'm like, okay. Like, can I get out here? I, I got an idea where I can find them and hike on over. He is like, no, no, I'll just, just sit here. We're gonna wait. They're all gonna come down the side, right? Yeah. [00:28:40] Rick Matney: And they'll be right here in a minute. Don't worry. That's right. [00:28:42] Travis Bader: Um, what, what do you find, like, how did you come about your style? And also I'm kind of curious about, uh, what the optimal guest would look like. Mm-hmm. And maybe after that we'll talk about some horror guests. Okay. Um, [00:28:57] Rick Matney: failure is the best teacher, you know, [00:29:00] uh, people aren't gonna learn if you show them how to do it and don't let them try it on their own. Right. And fail so. As far as, I don't, I don't like, I'm, I'm the same with you. I, I, if some people learn better by getting shown something, but I also want them to do it themselves. So even if I do have to show someone how to do it, I'm gonna show them enough to where they should be able to pick it up. But I want them to almost fail at it too. So they'll learn it, it'll stick. Mm. And you know, that's just part of, that's part of learning the outdoors. Mm. And the, the more I'm, I'm a guide. I'm not, I'm not doing it for you, so I'm gonna guide you to the right answer. Mm. But you need to step, you know, it's, it's your job to step over that log. I'm not gonna put your leg over the log. Mm-hmm. You know, and whatever else it is. And so I, I think people. Embrace that a lot more. It can be a little rough at first, you know, they're like, oh, you're supposed to be helping me. And I was like, I am helping you. You don't understand, but I am helping you. Mm-hmm. You're gonna learn [00:30:00] better and more if you, if you fail a little, unfortunately. But I mean, that's part of learning. That's, and you're gonna have a much higher appreciation for when you do find, it starts clicking and then all of a sudden you'll start to figure it out on your own without having to be told. Now, right now, now you're, you've formed a learning process to where you can figure stuff out without having to be pampered. And you're gonna be a lot, a lot better sportsman because of it too. [00:30:24] Travis Bader: You know, I've always been the type, how hot is, don't touch a stove, that stove is hot. [00:30:28] Rick Matney: Mm-hmm. [00:30:29] Travis Bader: I bet you could touch it quickly. I bet you. Mm-hmm. Like how hot? What do you mean by hot? Right? Yeah. I want to have a, like a level and a bar. A level. Yeah. Touch a quick, okay. That's what you mean. Yeah. I got a little bit of a burn, but I'm okay. Right. Yeah. But now I know. Yep. And I've always been that type and I've never, I don't know, some people can learn really well watching other people. [00:30:46] Rick Matney: Mm-hmm. [00:30:47] Travis Bader: I remember learning how to spa cast and I'm still learning how to spa cast. Yep. But, uh, that was, that was a frustrating experience with the, uh, and it wouldn't have been as frustrating. Uh, if a guy just kind of stepped back and let me fail a [00:31:00] whole bunch, but they didn't want to see me fail and Oh, now do this, now do that, now do this. Mm-hmm. And it was so micromanaged. Yep. Uh, from that one approach that, um, I was doing everything I could just to bite my tongue and keep my head in the right place and, and be happy. Um, watching how you deal with different people. Mm-hmm. 'cause you've had the whole gamut here. Oh, [00:31:20] Rick Matney: every type. [00:31:21] Travis Bader: Yeah. And just even on this trip mm-hmm. You've got a teenager, you've got a 7-year-old. Mm-hmm. You've got, uh, watching how you work with the, uh, the, the different types. It's um. It's in, it's really neat to see how you can keep spirits high within the group. Mm-hmm. And within yourself, even when you down, like, we're out there, we've lost a cannonball, A cannonball bro. First time that's [00:31:45] Rick Matney: ever happened. [00:31:45] Travis Bader: That's right. Randomly. Yeah. Um, uh, somebody, I'm not gonna name any names. Somebody lost a squid jig. Um, yeah. What did I lose? Was that the squid, Jake? Yeah. Probably.[00:32:00] Um, custom made squid jig. Was that a custom made quid, Jake? Oh, yeah. Oh man. Um, but being able to roll with these punches and keep everyone happy and, and still be able to produce and, and leave mm-hmm. With, uh, with, with goods. It's, it's interesting. Uh, what, what are some of the, uh, attributes that the perfect client would have if they came up here? [00:32:22] Rick Matney: You know, uh. Uh, eagerness. The eager to learn. Okay. I mean, you want someone who's interested in, you know, if it's, if they just want to kill fish, you know, that's not the perfect client for me. Mm-hmm. I want someone that wants to know why we're killing that fish and why we're only killing one of those fish. Mm-hmm. Why we're killing one of these fish, you know, not to have a, I don't, I don't like a lot of preconceived notions like, well, I'm coming to Alaska. I want to, you know, kill a bunch of silver salmon and bring home, 'cause that's what I like. You know, I want someone who's open to looking at a bunch of different. Different fish, different ways to, uh, experience Alaska or any other place for that matter. Um, but someone who's really open [00:33:00] to learning about other things besides what you, what you've read about or what you've seen on the brochure, pamphlet or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. You know, and then someone who's physically able to, to get around, you know, that's, that's important. 'cause you know, this is the wild west a little bit. You do need to be able to get in and outta boats. You gotta be able to hike up creeks. You gotta step over logs, you know you're gonna be wet, you're gonna be cold, you know, there's gonna be things that are gonna be unpleasant, you know? Mm. But in the end, you're gonna remember those unpleasant things as good things. You know, it may not seem like it at first, but that yesterday we're all soaking wet. I mean, by the time we got back to the boat, did anyone notice how wet and cold and miserable it was while we were up there catching fish? No, not at all. You remember the fish you caught, you remember totally how warm the boat felt when he got back and how great that was. And, and so the, that adversity, you need to be okay with that. And there's, there's some people, you know, that just have never. Been in a position of, of being uncomfortable, and [00:33:55] Travis Bader: it's good for you to be uncomfortable. It's amazing. I mean, life is [00:34:00] pretty crummy without discomfort. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It, the, those who seek comfort all the time are the most unhappy people that I know for sure. [00:34:08] Rick Matney: Yeah. And so someone with an open mind that wants to experience, you know, all facets, you know, the perfect guy to come up here or, or gal, you know, it's, it's anyone that's eager to learn, you know, that wants to, that wants to see past the, the standardized painting, you know, if you will. It's like, what's, what's behind the painting? You know, it, it looks like Mickey Mouse, but you know, what's behind that. [00:34:28] Travis Bader: Right. So do you have any stories of clients that maybe didn't quite meet that bar? Um, yeah. I, [00:34:36] Rick Matney: we get a lot of guys that, that have a very. Yeah. Optimistic expectations of their physical abilities. Okay. So I'd say my, my number one thing that becomes kind of maybe a disappointment or put to both me and them is people's overestimation of their physical ability. Hmm. You know, when I say you need to be able to walk a mile, you know, in rough, uneven terrain mm-hmm. [00:35:00] To me that means you need to be walk a mile in a rough, uneven terrain. Right. And, and when people get up here and they see what rough even terrain actually is, that it looks nothing like the aisle number six at Walmart, there becomes a pretty big barrier for what we can and can't do. Mm. And so, you know, the biggest thing is the physical ability and the under the underestimation of how difficult walking through the woods really is. You know, a lot of people have never done it. And these woods are no cakewalk. I mean, no, there's different types of woods and a. Very good manicured trail in Colorado is not gonna be the same as Bush whacking up a creek in southeast Alaska. [00:35:40] Travis Bader: Oh yeah. No, it's hard going. It, it's, yeah, it's, there's gonna be lots of stuff, lot, lots of places you can slip or trip and dead fall. Mm-hmm. Uh, devil's [00:35:48] Rick Matney: club. Lot of [00:35:49] Travis Bader: things to bite you. Yeah. Don't grabbing that Devil's club. Uh, yeah. Animals. You've got bears up here. Mm-hmm. And you've got all over. We didn't actually end up, I think we saw one bear. We saw [00:35:59] Rick Matney: one bear Yeah. [00:36:00] The whole weekend. And that's, that's slightly abnormal for, for us. But with the weather we had, that's not abnormal. I don't, I didn't see that as something that was, you know, it's like, oh, we should have seen more bears. Sure. No, with the weather that we have, I mean, it's absolutely nuking rain out there now. The bears don't like being out on that when the wind blows, the bears hate it. And we had one of the windiest weeks I think I've ever had up here. You know, I mean, it, it blew every single day to some extent or the other. Um, we found pockets to get out of it and everything like that. But I mean, you know, historically up here you might get one windy day outta 10 is all, and, and we had. Five right in a row, one right after the other. We got number six that's coming down with a hurricane. So what? [00:36:38] Travis Bader: Yeah. What about, uh, bearing counters? Have you had many bearing counters up here? Probably individually, but yeah. Also a guess. [00:36:46] Rick Matney: Yeah, we have, we've had a lot of, uh, I'm gonna call 'em bare sightings. I wouldn't call 'em encounters. Oh, none of them have been, uh, negative. I've had one problem bear ever in my entire guiding career where I had to step in and, and, and do something other [00:37:00] than that, you know, the bears get hunted here, so they have a pretty healthy fear of, of man. And so if you're not quiet, you're not gonna see 'em anyways. So, you know, a lot of groups that do wanna see bears will send them in first to the creeks with a guide, and as long as they're real quiet, there's some popular fishing holes by some waterfalls and things like that where we, we will frequently see them, but excuse me. Um, they'll, um. They're very cautious. You know, the, I think a lot of people have a very unwarranted fear of bears. Mm-hmm. Uh, that's always then almost the number one question I get when people are inquiring about a trip is like, are there bears? Mm-hmm. You know? 'cause they're just terrified of bears. And I've spent my whole life in the woods with bears. Sure. And to me, they're a furry timber pig, you know? Sure. I mean, it's, they're not, they're an omnivore. They're, they're, it's, it's not this big mean gnarly predator that everyone makes 'em out to be. They eat roots, they eat berries. I mean, they're, they're not. I don't understand where the bear, the fear of bears comes from. [00:37:57] Travis Bader: I think it just takes one negative encounter to, uh, have a [00:38:00] healthy respect for the Yep. For the bears. Yeah. But I mean, [00:38:02] Rick Matney: they're big, they're strong. Sure. And they have teeth. [00:38:05] Travis Bader: Yeah. But that gets glorified, right? It [00:38:06] Rick Matney: does. It does. And I think people take it too far. Uh, you know, to me it's not, I, I, I feel sorry for the bears 'cause they shouldn't have the negative ra uh, the negative, uh, annotation that they have for being this man killer and everything else. And very few bears that I've ever seen have become any sort of aggressive, uh, towards me. And if they have, they've had a pretty good reason for it. It's not like they've done it without reason. So. Fair enough. So that being said, um, you know, it's great to see bears, it's great to see bears in their, in their environment, you know, outside of, you know, a curated type. Uh, in, uh, place, you know, so like a bear view, which we do have permits to the bear viewing down here. And so we do have a place we can go and get really close to the bears because they haven't been hunted or messed with for 40 years. And so they're used to human interaction. And so you can get very close to those bears. And [00:39:00] people love that, just being that close to that dangerous of an animal and getting their picture, you know, getting nice pictures of the cubs and the, the bears grabbing salmon outta the stream and stuff like that. And then we have, you know, the actual bears that are not used to being, you know, humans we will sneak up on in the creeks, you know, we'll be creeping up a creek looking for fish and then all of a sudden, here's this bear. Mm-hmm. And they usually see you about the same time we see them, you know, they're, they're pretty in tune with their environment and there's always that, that brief minute of what are you, and then it's like, what are you? And then, and then decisions have to be made on both sides. Mm-hmm. Um, but, you know, 99 times out out of a hundred that bear's gonna try to get away from you as quickly as possible, especially if they smell you. [00:39:39] Travis Bader: See, you've got them educated here in British Columbia, we've educated our, our grizzly bears in particular, in the opposite direction. Yes. So we've, uh, decided our government says, can't hunt, can't hunt. The grizzly bears put a moratorium on that. And these grizzlies have zero fear of people anymore, and they just keep getting closer. They [00:40:00] know they're the king of castle. [00:40:01] Rick Matney: Oh, yeah. [00:40:01] Travis Bader: And, uh, they're untouchable. And, and that's, that's exactly it. Yeah. [00:40:06] Rick Matney: Yeah. You, you make them untouchable and you, you, you have a problem that you, you take, you take a good bear and make it a bad bear by, by not giving it some boundaries. [00:40:16] Travis Bader: And so all the while you're doing the school thing, you are doing the hunting, fishing, trapping thing. Mm-hmm. And then anytime it snows out, you're up a mountain. Mm-hmm. You're, you were a pro skier for a while. [00:40:28] Rick Matney: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I used to do big air competitions through the mid nineties, all the way to the early two thousands, and then the free ride competitions as well, when that started. And I think it was 98 was the first one. So yeah, I did, uh, that was my passion. You know, my dad, we had an outfitting business and an excavation business, and I'd trap in the wintertime and ski. And then the rest of the year I was running heavy equipment, you know, doing some fishing guiding, doing some hunting, guiding, uh, and then winter was kind of my off time. And so I, I really like skiing. I still ski to this day. I blew my ACL out last winter, [00:41:00] first one of my life, uh, skiing. Of course, of course. I'm getting a little bit heavier set than I used to be. And starting to. Get a little older. Good food. Yeah. Eating too much good food, uh, and made a mistake. But, um, yeah. So yeah, I grew up, uh, skiing a lot. You know, I'd, I'd put you on average, probably close to a hundred days on skis all through high school, uh, into my, probably freshman year of college. And then I had to back off, uh, I kind of got out of the skiing industry a little bit my freshman year of college because I was missing a lot of competitions due to school. And I kind of got the ultimatum from K two. They're like, Hey, you either, you either keep skiing and go all in or finish college and then come back. And in the three years it took me to finish college after that, the ski industry had gone so far past where I was at. I got left in the dust. And so I, I was a relic at that point in time. Fair enough. And that's, uh, that's how the skiing stuff ended. Uh, but I still love skiing and to this day, that's kind of my downtime, you know, after hunting season and before I go down [00:42:00] to Hawaii to guide, I got this little window and just the end of December, 1st of January, and I ski. You know, and that's, that's something I really like doing. I always have, um, I probably always will, uh, against, uh, my wife chagrin. She says if I have one more knee surgery, it's over for me. But, um, so I gotta be a little more careful now that I'm older. [00:42:18] Travis Bader: So skiing, that's your, your downtime hobby, but also precision rifle shitting. Yep. Guns. I love guns. [00:42:25] Rick Matney: Hey, [00:42:25] Travis Bader: speak my language. [00:42:26] Rick Matney: Yeah. So, uh. You know, I like the, I like the reloading side of precision rifles more than anything. Yeah. To me it's just, it's, it's semi witchcraft, semi science. And so it's just, it's this happy medium blend of, of making something work and watching it come together. And I, so I love reloading for rifles. Um, I do it for fun for myself. I do it for buddies. I do it for different outdoor reps. Uh, they'll, they'll get a rifle and be like, Hey, I need this rifle all dialed in. I got this hunt. You know, can you make me a custom load for this? So, you know, it's, you know, better than what factory can produce. Absolutely. I'll get right on that. [00:43:00] Um, and so that's, that's another hobby of mine that I really like doing. You know, it's, it's, it's kind of a job. I mean, I. You compensated for it here and there for doing something, so it's not a complete hobby. Sure. Technically it's kind of work, but, uh, I really enjoy it. It's soothing to me, you know, you know, after you get done guiding and, and fishing and, and, and all the other stuff I do with lodge and business ownership and everything else. Sitting down at a reloading bench to me is, you know, what a lot of people would do for like, reading a book. It's kind of my little escape. Mm. So I can shut my brain off and just sit there and, and make bullets and I'm just And you're [00:43:34] Travis Bader: a hundred percent present. [00:43:36] Rick Matney: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:36] Travis Bader: You're [00:43:36] Rick Matney: present [00:43:37] Travis Bader: in the moment of what you're doing. Yeah. [00:43:38] Rick Matney: And so it's a good way for me to kind of turn my brain off. You know, reloading, reloading ammo for me is, is kind of my, my shutdown when I need to take a break from all the mental trials that I have for making boats and mechanicals and, and having all the things work around me. You know, it's reloading to me is easy. You know, I can just sit down and [00:44:00] just reload and just turn everything else off. Like [00:44:02] Travis Bader: the Energizer Bunny. Just go, go, go, go here. So when you wrap up here, okay. You're. You're off to Montana? Yep. Back to [00:44:10] Rick Matney: Montana. We wrap up here and then we're, we're, I, I move straight into hunting season and cooking classes in Montana. So we got a couple of classes. I gotta, I fly in, I gotta go to a wedding the night, uh, the next day that I fly in. And then the next day after that, I got back to back cooking classes in Bozeman. And then after that we roll into a steelhead camp down in Hells Canyon that I put on every year that I've done since I was 16 years old. I'm 43 now. And so I meet up with a bunch of. Um, riff raft, I guess is the best way to put it from all over the northwest. And, uh, we have guides that come from Alaska, California, Washington, Montana, and a lot of 'em are just seasonal fishing guides that, you know, that that middle to end of October is kind of time off and it's a lot of times it's before rifle season starts, before hunting guides start to go back to work and after the fishing guides get done with their season. [00:45:00] So it's kind of a collection of different individuals in the fishing slash hunting world that just we all get together and just go steal it. Fish for a week and camp without cell phone service. And it's kind of a break between the two seasons and it makes it kind of nice. [00:45:15] Travis Bader: So you've been chasing wild animals all over, all over the world Yeah. For most of your life. Mm-hmm. Um, do you ever stop to think what it is you're actually chasing? [00:45:26] Rick Matney: You know, I, I know what I'm chasing now at the time. I, I, I probably didn't know 10 years ago or 15 years ago, and now I'm chasing the feeling that I got 15 years ago for someone else. [00:45:37] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:45:37] Rick Matney: If that makes sense. No, I get it. You know, it's, I, I don't get excited when I shoot a big buck. Sure. You know, I have, I've never had buck fever. I didn't, wouldn't know that. What, what that was even like, you know, I was shooting squirrels so young that, you know, there was no buck fever. Mm-hmm. I never went through that stage because I started so young and did it so often that to me it was, it was a job. Mm-hmm. You know, it, [00:46:00] it wasn't, it wasn't an emotional thing. And, you know, later in life, getting to see how, you know, other people get emotionally vested into a successful hunt. To me, that's exciting. You know, that gets me more excited, watching them, being excited than it ever would me pulling the trigger, well, we [00:46:17] Travis Bader: haven't hunted together yet, but we have fished together. Mm-hmm. And. I can tell you, I can see the excitement on your face when we come into the river. Mm-hmm. Both for yourself. Fishing gets you excited. Fishing does. Yeah. As well as, uh, for the guests. Yeah. For everybody else out there. The excitement that you have. When my son hooked up the other day with that coho Oh, perfect. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. That was, uh, so that's kind of interesting how you could take something that you're passionate about. Mm-hmm. You can make it your business, but it still fuels you. Oh, for sure. And I, [00:46:51] Rick Matney: I mean, I, I love fishing. I, everyone always asks, what's your favorite fishing or hunting? And, you know, I hunt, I hunt, hunting's fun, and I get [00:47:00] excited about hunting. It's, but hunting's work too. Fishing to me is always fun, no matter what it is. 'cause hunting has a lot more, um, steps to it. Yeah. You know, I can just go fishing. It's hard for me to just go hunting. I need to have a plan. I have to have an idea of what animal I want. You know, you get one animal, you know, when I go fishing. I can catch one, I can catch a hundred. I'm just going to, I'm just going to go fish. So it takes a lot of the pressure off. Um, I think, and the, a lot of the mental load when it comes to fishing, so I can have fun with fishing, whether it's mildly successful or extremely successful. You know, a hunt a lot of times is just measured in the success of harvesting an animal for a lot of people. Right. And, you know, I find value in hunting to me, in the experience, like, I like that. Sure. And if I can watch someone else have a successful hunt and harvest an animal, that makes me excited. Mm-hmm. If I do it myself, it's not as big a deal, you know? I get that. And so, but fishing is a little different. You know, fishing's always exciting [00:48:00] for me because it's, there's not just one animal. It's, it's, it's more about the experience for fishing versus a, a goal oriented [00:48:07] Travis Bader: task. What do you find is the most requested targeted species from your guests? And if the roles were reversed, if it was you going out there. What do you think your most favorite targeted species would be? [00:48:21] Rick Matney: Um, you know, I love catching Ling cot out here. Mm. Uh. Bottom fishing super fun to me. It's, a lot of times guests don't like it. They're big, heavy rods. The jigs heavy. You know, we had some pretty tough halibut fishing when we were up here. [00:48:35] Travis Bader: Oh, [00:48:35] Rick Matney: we got her done. We got her done, we got some. Um, so it's a little more of a grind and I'd say, um, everybody loves eating them. Nobody likes catching them. So, um, I, I really like it. You know, that's, you know, the ling caught especially is one of my favorite things to catch up here, you know, obviously. You know in the creeks, pink salmon, you know, guests love catching pink salmon 'cause they catch one every single cast and they just go hog wild. They think it's the greatest thing ever. To me [00:49:00] that's my least favorite thing to catch 'cause they all look the same. They're all about the same size and you catch one every cast and they're not hard at all. So, so I mean it is a difference in, and not all guests are work for you too. Yeah, it's lot more for me. I'm just sitting there unhooking fish as fast as I can. You know, my hands are shredded from salmon teeth even though I got little de hookers to get 'em off. They still wrapping my hand around the line and getting line cuts in my fingers and it's just, you know, it's work. Yeah. And you know, they're loving it 'cause they don't have to go through all the, the line cuts and the salmon teeth. 'cause I'm doing, I'm unhooking 'em for Yeah, of course they love it. Yeah. So they love it. Um, yeah, so I mean, you know, I definitely like the fish that are a little bit. More mysterious, a little harder to catch. I mean, king salmon's probably one of my favorite things to fish for. It's also incredibly boring. It's the hours of boredom followed by minutes of chaos. Um, you know, for a lot of people it's like sitting there watching a rod just do this, you know, on the down rigger, and nothing happened for a long time. That's, that's not exactly that fun, but to me, the anticipation of that and trying to figure out where that fish is at [00:50:00] and getting them to bite, you know, I, I love the equation behind it. And, and they, they don't see the equation because I'm up on the sounder, you know, watching fish. I'm up and marketing. Yeah. You know, I'm seeing different things that are happening. And so to me, it's a lot, it's a bigger picture that they don't get to see where, you know, a salmon in the creek, you know, their, their world is fly water, fish, eat. I reel it in. You know, there's, there's not all the other parts going on, so it's a little more simple. See, I'd be, [00:50:24] Travis Bader: you know, I'd, I'd probably make a terrible guide. I'd be frustrated looking back and everyone is. Hooting and hollering and having a good time. Like, come on. Can at least, why don't you keep an eye on the rods back there? Yeah, for sure. Can somebody be back there ready and mm-hmm. You do. You find you have to bite your tongue a lot or, you [00:50:41] Rick Matney: know, I've gotten really good at doing that over the years. Biting your tongue. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was younger I was a little snappier and I can get a little salty sometimes, especially if I have to say the same thing. Mm-hmm. If we make the same mistake once we hit the 15 to 20 time mark in the same mistake, oh man. That's when I usually start to turn up the volume a [00:51:00] little. Mm-hmm. Be like, all right, okay, we've done this before. How many times have we gone over this exact same thing? Let's, let's work on this one more time. Repeat it back to me. What did I just say [00:51:08] Travis Bader: to you? [00:51:08] Rick Matney: Yeah, for sure. Uh, you know, so you do have, you do have, you know, STAs, but it's. You know, everyone's there for the same reason. We're all trying to have fun, right? So if you're not having fun, your guys can't have fun. That's just all there is to it. And once you understand that everyone's trying, their hardest client's trying their hardest, I'm trying my hardest. And you understand that, that's just the way it is. And there's no reason to be upset with anyone for any reason because they're trying their hardest, we're trying our hardest. And once you kind of get that mentality, it makes it easy to be okay with failure and, and things that don't happen. Or having to say, you know, now don't drop the raw tip on this one. I know it's our fifth salmon that we've lost today, but let's try to keep that up one more time. Yep. And yeah. And so it, it takes a special breed of person to, to have to. See that over and over and over again. Mm. And, [00:52:00] and still be okay with it. Mm-hmm. And it's just one of those things that I, maybe I was just born to do it. I don't know. But I, I have a pretty high patience level when it comes to, uh, to having to repeat myself. [00:52:11] Travis Bader: Well, I, uh, I'd say that, uh, I've witnessed that, so that's good. Yeah. Um, the, I, well, I shouldn't say that. The crew we had here is pretty darn good. Oh, they were great. Um, but I have witnessed you being able to be constrained when things are getting a little bit more difficult. Mm-hmm. And that's, uh. Now speaking about difficult, we had a difficult time getting out to one spot just because of the weather. Uh, it just wouldn't be safe. Weather didn't permit it. Yep. But you mentioned that there's a spot that's way far out here. Yeah. You paint the picture for me. What would I [00:52:42] Rick Matney: have been looking at? How, oh man. Yeah. We call it Japan. Okay. 'cause it, it feels like you drive to Japan and it's basically on the outside, the ocean side of all of the islands, you know that we're in here. So once you're out on the ocean side, it's a hundred miles by boat in any direction to the next closest town. So it's a long, a long boat ride. [00:53:00] Uh, and it's so hard for anyone to get to. I mean, we're, we're closer here to it than almost anywhere else. But the Craig Boys, they're coming 110 to get to it. You know, it's, it's the most remote place in southeast Alaska. And the fishing there is unreal. I mean, it's hard to get a jig to the bottom, and you catch all kinds of different fish. You know, everything from giant yellow eye to huge ling cod. I mean, I, I hooked a halibut out there and landed it, uh, last week that was probably pushing 300 pounds, you know, the biggest one I've ever seen. Um, and it's just, you never know what you're gonna catch, so it's just, you're gonna catch something immediately, but you don't know what it is. And it could be anything from a little three pound black rock fish to, you know, a 70 pound ling cod. And, uh, I, I'm, I'm pretty confident that I will break the world record Ling Cod out there. I've been within two pounds now. Seriously? Yep. Uh, and I've been within 10 pounds of it quite a few times. I think there were records, 82 pounds, I believe. And, uh. I keep, I keep knocking on the door and you know, same with Yellow Eye rock fish. [00:54:00] I mean, I actually broke the world record Yellow Eye, but we weren't allowed to retain them at the time. Um, I, I weighed one that was 42 pounds and I think the current World Record's 39, um, blast it. That one, there's, there's fish out there that are trophy class fish that are, that are super awesome and it's just, it's unbelievable. We, we weren't able to make it this week. This is actually the only week we weren't able to make it this whole season. Um, very rarely do I not. Get out there. I can think of one other week that I never got out there before in, in the history of me doing this. And so a bummer we couldn't get out there. The black bass fishing out there for the, uh, black pelagic rockfish is, I mean, as soon as you hit the water, they'll jump out of the water with your lure hanging off the side of the boat and eat it in the air. It's, it's so nonstop action that everybody loves it. I mean, it gets to the point where it's just chaotic, you know? And it's, it's, it's one of the few places I know of where the off, you know, the bottom fishing is that lights out, that's nuts. So, and the storm's getting closer. You can hear that thunder [00:55:00] getting louder, man. What I, yeah, I don't think I've ever seen lightning. I'm trying to think of one time that I've seen lightning. I've heard thunder a couple of times up here, but I can only think of, I can't think of a single time. I've actually seen lightning here. So today might be a first. [00:55:16] Travis Bader: Hey, uh, we've said a few firsts on this chapter. Oh yeah, sure, sure. Um, what does the next five years hold for you and for Chrome chasers? [00:55:25] Rick Matney: You know, I'd really like to grow out this, uh, fall and summer fishing foraging program. I think it's. I think it's a good example of where I think the outfitting and fishing industry, especially in southeast Alaska, needs to go. You know, there's, you know, historically Southeast Alaska has been a catch and kill, bring home as much fish as you possibly can sort of mentality. Um, and the regulations, I mean, they keep getting stricter and stricter and stricter, and you're allowed to take less and less and less because we've overfished it both commercially and in sport. And, you know, I wanted to start this program almost as an example of, of [00:56:00] how I think we should be doing it. Um, we're, I'm here to spread out my impact over the entire scope of the resource versus focusing on like a silver salmon and halibut focused program where we let guests take as much of that home as they can. You know, I, I think that by teaching people how to cook it and how to. You know, pick wild mushrooms, catch rockfish, you know, dig clams, catch crab and shrimp and pots, you know, spread your impact over the whole resource. Get a huge database and, and experience with all the different things and make it into to the delicious food, and bring just enough home to feed your family and show 'em what you did. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that that's, that's the future for what Alaska, especially Southeast, needs to be looking forward to. You know, the idea of coming up here and filling a bunch of fish boxes and bringing it back. I, I, I don't agree with that. You know, we, we limit all of our guests to one fish box, you know, per guest, you know, under 50 pounds that they can bring home, and they can put whatever they want in there. You know, I've had people [00:57:00] take jelly that we've made from the berries. We've picked home, you know, canned butter clams, uh, dried mushrooms or par cooked mushrooms. You know, I had one gal that came up, uh, you know, he is, uh, he, he had a daughter and he said, well, I've taken my son to Alaska three times. I want to give my daughter a trip. And I was like, well, what's she into? And he's like, well, she's into foraging. And like I saw, I heard you on a podcast about talking about foraging and fishing, and it's like, this seemed like the perfect trip because my son and I could, could fish 'cause we're diehard fishermen and she could, she could, you know, hunt mushrooms and do some of the other stuff. And, you know, so they, I booked them on the trip and they came up and at the end of that week that father was like, you know, I had no idea how much fun mushroom hunting could be. Mm. He, I couldn't hardly pull him outta the woods by the end of the week. He's like, he's like, I, I'm a diehard fisherman and I now have a whole different way to look at this. You know, and, and so it's just the experience needs to be put on a higher pedestal than the end goal of a, a filled fish box. And so [00:58:00] that's in five years I see myself. I want to grow this program out. I wanna set an example for other lodges, um, you know, to take less by, by doing more. Is that a hard sell? Yeah. [00:58:11] Travis Bader: That's a very hard sell. So, because so many people, they just want to come in and go home with the biggest, monster, [00:58:16] Rick Matney: biggest box they can of fish. Yeah. [00:58:19] Travis Bader: Right. Um, how, how are you finding those people? [00:58:24] Rick Matney: You know, a lot of it's, you know, they've been re a lot of my clients from steelhead fishing, you know, they've come up and they've experienced this steelhead program and they're like, this place is wild, man. I'd love to bring my kids or my wife, you know, but this is just too hard of fishing and stuff. And it's like, well, our fall fishing port, uh, forging program is, is nothing like our steelhead program. It is. Anyone could do it. I mean, we had Adelaide, she's, she's seven years old. Yeah. She did the whole program. No problem. Yeah. And you know, so it's, we had a 90-year-old two weeks ago. You know, it's something that is accessible to, I believe all age groups, all ability levels. And [00:59:00] so, you know, it's, it's good. It's good to have. It's a great way to get, you know, guests up here with a family and, and it's easy and palatable. Mm-hmm. But I really haven't done much advertising. It's, it's been all word of mouth and a lot of it has been, you know, existing clients from Montana or from our steelhead program that have been like, Hey, I, I want my wife to come and see this. But yeah. You know, it's too hard to do steelhead. And it's like, well, here, look at this program. And, and so that's where almost all of 'em have come from. And then word of mouth, you know, once they come, once, I mean, we had, you know, mostly return guests this year again. And so I never saw this trip as being something that was. People would do every year. I figured this, the way I have it kind of geared up and set up is a bucket list Alaska trip. It's like, I want to pile as much of Alaska into a week as I can to have the best experience possible to do, here's my Alaska trip. You know? And so I never envisioned this being a multi-year, you know, repeat kind of kind of program. But I mean, it kind of has turned out that way from [01:00:00] the guys that have come. There's just so much to do. You can't fit it all in a, in a, in a week and they end up coming back. It's like, well, we never went to the glacier this time. I'm gonna come back and do it again. Let's go to the glacier this time. And you know, and so. You know, maybe I'm looking at it a little bit differently. It might not be a, a once in a lifetime trip. It might be a, an everyday kind of thing, but I want to teach people enough in their trip here to be able for them to take that back home with them. You know, from the cooking, from the foraging, from spreading their, their impact out over the resource. I want them to take that home instead of a box full of fish. [01:00:32] Travis Bader: That's where I see the real, uh, cheat code for people who want to be able to go out and maybe self guide themself next time and for sure feel comfortable being able to identify different mushrooms and Yeah, and knowing how to, how to fish or how to get up a stream and what to look for. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's all these little things even just, you know. Vacuum sealing the, uh, the shrimp, the spot prawns or the um, uh, on the smoker people. Not everyone's spent as much time [01:01:00] as you have building their own smoker from wood that they've found and salvage themselves, and then milled themselves and together. And you've got a. Down to a science back there. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I, I see that as a cheat code for anybody else who wants to emulate this kind of a lifestyle [01:01:16] Rick Matney: For sure. And, you know, and with the popularity, it, it seems like it's getting more and more acceptable. You know, this, it wasn't acceptable to tell your hunting buddies that you were out picking mushrooms. Mm-hmm. You know, they'd make fun of you for that Sure. 20 years ago. Sure. You, what are you a little hippie running around the roads picking up and, and now it's like people are starting to embrace that lifestyle more. The more we see that the industrialized food complex is, is harming us, you know, seed oils and, and inhumane treatment of, of poultry and things like that. Right. It's like, you know, suddenly going out and getting your own food seems like the right thing to do and it's becoming much more acceptable. And, you know, this is basically a masterclass that's fast track that puts you right to the front of the line. Mm-hmm. When it comes to being able to sustain yourself in the wild.[01:02:00] [01:02:00] Travis Bader: Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about? [01:02:05] Rick Matney: Um, man. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. [01:02:11] Travis Bader: Well, [01:02:12] Rick Matney: uh, I will need to put some more wood in the smokehouse pretty [01:02:15] Travis Bader: soon. That's exactly what I was thinking right now. Why don't we call it here? I'm gonna put links in the description to, uh, how people can find you. Everyone take a look there. Uh, and after we do the smokehouse, you and I, we can record a quick outpost. Okay. Which you see private members podcast with, uh, insider tips and tricks and, uh, perfect. Get a little bit more, uh, personal. But, uh, we'll call it a wrap there. And, uh, Rick, thank you so much for being on a sober podcast. Awesome. Thank you so much, Travis.