[00:00:00] Travis Bader: Recently Alaska Guide Creations had a 20% off discount on all of their products for Silver Corp Club members. For those of you that didn't jump on this amazing discount, keep your eyes peeled on our social media as we will be giving away an Alaska Guide Creations Bin Pack system, very similar to what I use and I'm holding up here for Silver Corp Club members that haven't tuned into the Outpost yet, that's the Private members podcast exclusive only for Silver Court Club members. Go into your club dashboard, get your private link and start listening today. Comes out every Monday. Here's a review from Silver Court Club member Dale. The outpost has quickly become one of my favorite new podcasts. The shorter format fits perfectly into my [00:01:00] mornings, and each episode centers on a single theme explored with just the right amount of detail. I especially appreciate the practical takeaways, simple actions or reflections I can carry into my day or week. Travis brings a thoughtful mix of outdoor expertise and life expertise, and he has somehow found a great balance of depth and brevity. I highly recommend it. Thanks, Dale. Now without further ado, let's get into this episode. I'm joined today by a combat veteran with specialized training in information warfare and psychological operations. He holds a master's in culture and a negotiation. He's built a career as a crown prosecutor and litigator, and now works directly with CEOs as a strategy coach. He's an entrepreneur, a self-described recovering lawyer, and a force of nature in the courtroom and boardroom alike, and he's been known for taking on problems that most wouldn't even dream of touching. Welcome to the Silver Court Podcast, [00:02:00] Philip Millar. [00:02:01] Phillip Millar: Thank you, sir. It was a great intro. I'm gonna, I'm gonna borrow that for my own bio or somewhere else. [00:02:07] Travis Bader: We can throw it up on the website there. Uh, you know, so we're talking a little bit off air. Mm-hmm. And I have, uh, done work as a subject matter expert for the courts, both crown and for defense counsel on weapons related and use of force related, uh, matters. And consequently, I, you know, I, I get people calling up or emailing or messaging me saying, Hey, I'm, I'm looking for a really good firearms lawyer, or I'm looking for a really good, um, self-defense lawyer. Or, I'm looking for whatever it might be. And my, my advice from my experience has always been the same. Don't look for a good firearms lawyer, somebody who knows gun stuff inside and out. Look for somebody who's got, uh, the procedural law figured out. Who can tell this story, who can work, a jury, who can work a judge, somebody who's got some chops in that area. 'cause they can learn the other [00:03:00] parts. And, um, uh, my experience has been that the, the firearm centric lawyers can get bogged down in the minutiae and they might win that particular minutia minute fight, but lose the overall war. You have a gift for storytelling and from what I've been doing in my research, are a big picture looker when it comes to dealing in law as well as for consulting for businesses. Let's, uh, let's see if we could dissect that a little bit. [00:03:33] Phillip Millar: Yeah. Like, I'm a kind of a lawyer by accident, so I don't, you know, I don't really enjoy the profession, but I went into, thereafter I had to leave the military on a medical issue 'cause I lost my eyesight in one eye. And, um, what I found is that lawyers think that they are smart, but they're not necessarily compelling. Uh, and they don't think they have to care about human behavior, human nature stories. They just [00:04:00] think that their IQ and their LSAT score and their ability to quote cases is all that's needed. Mm-hmm. [00:04:04] Travis Bader: And as [00:04:05] Phillip Millar: you says, that's an astute point. I haven't heard anybody, uh, from your side ever be that, uh, uh. Perceptive about it because the people who get into the most minutia about a topic are amazing. I hire those lawyers as consultants if I need them. Mm-hmm. Right. Because I, I, if you look at the British model, it's even, it's interesting in the Bri, in the British legal system, the barristers, which are the trial lawyers, they don't see the file until almost a day it goes into court. You know what I mean? Wow. 'cause they're so, they almo, they all go to court, and then they get handed slips that are going to trial, and they take it to trial because they know how to, how, how to perform on the stage or the theater of a, of a courtroom. [00:04:49] Travis Bader: Mm. But there's so [00:04:49] Phillip Millar: many layers to the legal world, and the system has gone. So we can talk later about how juries have changed because of COVID. COVID has represented a really ch a change in society [00:05:00] that most people in all of these industries haven't accommodated for. And it's a struggle like. Our society has fundamentally changed the last five to 10 years. It's rewritten the rules and the people who were experts before aren't, aren't getting the success they needed. So you need range in order to solve important problems. And that's where, and that's where reading outside of your area of expertise, having education in different areas, having traveled the world, it gives you an ability to dissect a problem from a better level than just focusing on a tiny point that doesn't really matter. [00:05:32] Travis Bader: Well, let's start to the first point. How'd you lose eyesight in one of your eyes? [00:05:36] Phillip Millar: I was just on a deployment, uh, overseas in Africa. I went and, uh, lost my eyesight. They sent me to law school. And, uh, so lawyer by accident, uh, doing, doing interesting things, you know, I thought it would be, I went into the prosecutor's office 'cause I thought it'd be a white hat kind of role that I felt I had as combat [00:06:00] officer. Mm-hmm. Specialized units. And then I just found. I found I was put a lot of innocent people in jail because their lawyers fucking sucked. [00:06:07] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. Uh, [00:06:08] Phillip Millar: and the, you know, and one of the hard things about being a lawyer is, is not letting the client dictate everything too, because, but the lawyers, if you have money, they'll just let you, they'll let you pay them as long as you want. You see this in divorce all the time, which a lot of our brothers and, and some of our sisters suffer from like, uh, grievance kind of issues that don't really need legal solutions. But lawyers are happy to take your money and say how unfair the world is. Mm. You know, I've had this with vaccines. I've had people offer me a hundred thousand dollars to fight, fight some issues in the legal system that I just know they can't win based on the premise that they're articulating, even though I think they may be Right. [00:06:45] Travis Bader: Sure. [00:06:46] Phillip Millar: And it's hard because nobody knows what lawyers actually do behind closed doors with their billing, their docketing. You know, there's just so many who will grin, fuck you. Mm-hmm. But you know, they'll smile, pump up what your grievances are and take your [00:07:00] money. And in the end, when they lose. To say, I'm sorry. That's why I've always respected how pilots deal with errors versus surgeons and lawyers. If pilots screw up, they die. Right. Lawyers and doctors, if they screw up, say sorry, sue me. Yeah, exactly. [00:07:15] Travis Bader: I've got insurance. [00:07:16] Phillip Millar: Yeah. So it's a different approach to learning and, and to being better at your job. [00:07:23] Travis Bader: Well, so a number of things unpack there, but uh, I'm just gonna jump to the next one, which kind of, um, 'cause I know I'm gonna come back to a few of them, uh, ai. When I look at modern AI and how that's being implemented, is that going to make many parts of the lawyer's job sort of redundant? Because aside from maybe the storytelling, but a lot of the work that a lawyer does, AI seems to be able to, to do maybe with some [00:07:53] Phillip Millar: No, no. [00:07:54] Travis Bader: Incorrect information. [00:07:56] Phillip Millar: This, this is getting into some, some good higher order [00:08:00] thinking is professions, uh, can, can provide a service to society, but then what they do is they close their ranks and do everything to preserve the profession's ability to make money. Mm-hmm. So, so in medicine, we should be able to telemedicine five minutes, upload our medical records, have ai do a diagnosis thing, provide, and we could improve medicine by a thousand percent. But the unions and the associations wanna protect the billing mechanism. The same thing happens in law. Like every, any human could probably get an amazing contract 99 times out of a hundred with ai. If it's done properly. But we, we put in all of these procedural things. Like I, it's still hard for me to go to a new courtroom and figure out what the fuck to do. Mm. Like so we just complicate and complicate and complicate, and it makes people have to use these professionals and it's not actually solving the problem. So, you know, the, I think the one area that will survive is the trial lawyer, because they have to go into the arena, you know, the coliseum of [00:09:00] ideas and fight the battle. But for all, I tell young lawyers all the time, you're, you're overly cocky. Yeah. You got a good score, you got a law degree, but you can't keep billing 500 bucks an hour for when AI can give you a 90% solution to it. I think plumbers and electricians are gonna be making lawyers wages in two years. Mm-hmm. And lawyers are gonna be making their wages because they're not innovating. [00:09:20] Travis Bader: You see, I, I see a future where AI can be the arbiter of truth as well. And people just have to, uh, agree on facts and use a lawyer ahead of time Yeah. To agree on the standard that it's gonna be measured by and the facts that get input. And then you say, okay, here you go. And throw it into, uh, the ai, uh, judge. Essentially [00:09:38] Phillip Millar: people, people don't wanna acknowledge it, but there are tests that they won't show you where AI today is twice as effective at diagno diagnosing elements than a doctor, right? And so, even from, from figuring out fact from fiction, jurors and judges have biases, bad days, like you don't get justice in these systems. You just get the best results you can on the day. [00:10:00] [00:10:00] Travis Bader: You know, I've, I've long since learned we don't have a, uh, a justice system. We have a judicial system, but we don't have a justice system. And I've watched people go in and lie through their teeth, but cry on the stand. [00:10:13] Phillip Millar: Oh, gosh. [00:10:14] Travis Bader: And, and the, the justice, the judges is sitting up there and this sort of lancelot want to savior if that kind of kicks in and, uh, the lies get overlooked. Oh my God. I don't, [00:10:27] Phillip Millar: yeah, sorry. The most business, like, it's almost too much. But it's, you know, like I used to prosecute rapists. Like I, I like taking down bastards. [00:10:35] Travis Bader: Good. [00:10:36] Phillip Millar: Right. Uh, it, it gave me joy after the military, but I also saw that a lot, a lot of men's lives are being absolutely destroyed because of a system that the pendulum has swung so far forward that if you shed tears, there's this believe all victims before trial and there's no recourse. I've had so many cases on it, it's just. Uh, it, it is [00:11:00] heartbreaking not to be able to have society recognize how many men's lives are being destroyed. Like in university in third year, the police come by and say, somebody said in first year they were too drunk. Like, it's not, it's not a rape. It's too drunk people. And then somebody is redefining what consent is, and then the person's kicked out of school has to pay a hundred grand if they have any hopes of winning and they don't get it back. And it's very hard to hold, hold a liar accountable because what I, I think this is interesting. Um, men predominantly use physical force for violence. That's just part of Sure. Evolution Women, Jordan Peterson has said this, women use words for violence. [00:11:38] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:11:39] Phillip Millar: We now live in a society where women, where words can create violence against men. Mm-hmm. All you have to do is manufacture an allegation. Right. Which is much easier than getting away with hitting somebody. In many cases. Right? So because there's bad women and bad men, bad women who wanna get a $200,000 tax free payout, can just [00:12:00] use words to get it, you know? And, and society won't acknowledge. You go up in a courtroom and you say you're lying for money. And they're like, oh my God, how dare you say, you know, this gender would lie for money. I'm like, I dare. Right? All the time. Like, people will cheat on their taxes, they'll lie for a $200,000 tax free. [00:12:17] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:12:17] Phillip Millar: You know, but it's, it's an uphill battle to clear names. [00:12:21] Travis Bader: Well, so you go in, you're wearing the white hat, so you think you're, uh, working as Queen's Council now, King's Council. And at some point you started to question that. Was there a tipping point or was this a gradual thing? [00:12:37] Phillip Millar: There was a tipping point and combined with the fact that, because I was good getting kids, like when you prosecute a rapist, the kids, a child rapist, especially the kids have to get on the stand and testify. [00:12:48] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:12:49] Phillip Millar: Right. And memory is crazy, but. Essentially the kid has to relive what happened. Yeah. And so I was prosecuted and because I was good with kids, most lawyers aren't good with other humans, right? Mm-hmm. They don't play well [00:13:00] in the sandbox. They're not empathetic. So I just got all of the kids rape cases. And then the, the thing that made me switch to private practice is just doing a, a prosecution where the three victims were all the same age as my daughters. [00:13:13] Travis Bader: Mm. And [00:13:13] Phillip Millar: hearing about the, like, I just was like, I gotta get out of this. Uh, you know, I got the conviction, but, you know, I went out and I started representing victims of sexual assault. It's amazing how many men are victims of sexual assault. And this is probably a good podcast to talk about a little bit because everybody's like one in three women. Men do, but men don't come forward. The numbers one in five to one in six men have been abused. Especially people who live in rural areas, isolated areas, they can't talk about it. They end up medicating with alcohol, drugs. Some of them end up abusing other people because they never had therapy or never were, they don't feel comfortable talking about it. [00:13:50] Travis Bader: Isn't that the common case? That the, the abusers often within a few years will become, or the, the abuse will become the abuser, even child abusers. [00:13:59] Phillip Millar: Right. [00:14:00] Almost all of them were abused as a kid. And there's just weird stuff that goes on. We don't understand the mind, but men's first, uh, orgasm will often affect their sexuality as they grow up, especially if they're young. So if they're abused by an uncle, a young boy is abused by the uncle, it can change them. [00:14:18] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. You know, [00:14:18] Phillip Millar: and a psychological, and then they, and then they can seek to get back to that innocence of being the kid they were. And it kind of attracts 'em to kids. So it's a very weird bad, but because we don't offer a safe way for people to talk about what happened, uh, men straw and a lot, and the good men just drink, you know what I mean? To hide it. So, you know, I, if, if for anybody in your audience, if you're abused, like there is no shame. It just happened to, I was abused when I was in grade six. By a, a man at a bus stop like guy died before trial of leukemia. But you gotta be able to kind of talk about it and create a community where we don't all have to thump our chest and pretend we're, you know, we're invincible. But, uh, it, it's a, it's a difficult area to get into. So I ended up starting [00:15:00] representing victims of sexual abuse and holding the rapists accountable in civil law. [00:15:05] Travis Bader: And then [00:15:05] Phillip Millar: I, I just gravitated towards helping people who are wrongfully accused also. Like I, but there's those I, I like coming from the military. I like challenges that, you know, most people won't take on. It's not the most profitable, but [00:15:19] Travis Bader: Yeah. But it fuels you. I mean, so you, you look at your childhood and your upbringing and what happened there is that like you're a fighter. That's what you do. You got into the Canadian Armed Forces. 'cause you choose, you want to fight and you want to protect those who can't protect themselves. As a lawyer, you're a fighter. It's a different arena, but you're doing it. Um. Do you ever get tired of the fight? [00:15:40] Phillip Millar: No. No. That's why I'm moving more into the coaching of businesses. Mm. You with my, with my partner. Because honestly, the system will, will wear you down. Like, and, you know, I've had decades of fighting and I, I find I would rather be on a patrol overseas or jumping into a hot LZ Mm. Than going into a justice system that doesn't care about the [00:16:00] truth. Then where bureaucrats are just moving product, they got their political bias and it's, it's heartbreaking to lose a jury trial where you really believe the person's innocent. And, you know, we got, I just had a case where, uh, thankfully I won it, but retired service member, divorced is OPP, senior, uh, senior police officer wife. [00:16:20] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:16:20] Phillip Millar: And when he was successful in the family court, two weeks later, she went to her department and buddy got charged with attempted murder, assault, uh, all of this stuff from 20 years ago. [00:16:32] Travis Bader: Mm. And then [00:16:33] Phillip Millar: 20 years ago, and he gets arrested in a massive take down. Uh, just destroyed his life. And we had to do a three week jury trial. And I can tell you at the beginning, the judge wasn't happy with me attacking a female, but by the end female judge was like, this woman's lying. But buddy. Well [00:16:50] Travis Bader: that's, that's a pretty tough hurdle to jump over and to get other people to jump over with you. Well, especially [00:16:56] Phillip Millar: a police officer who knows how to take the stand [00:16:59] Travis Bader: mm-hmm. And [00:17:00] give [00:17:00] Phillip Millar: evidence, like if, if, if ever there's a danger it as if that person makes a wrongful allegation. [00:17:07] Travis Bader: Um, so you, you said earlier, you know, we don't understand the mind. Yeah. But you've got a little bit of insight, like you've, we're talking about information warfare, psychological operations, uh, that plays a little bit into a person's psyche, into mind. Yeah. Can, I don't truly understand, uh, the ins and outs of information warfare and psychological operations. Can you break that down for me? Well, [00:17:31] Phillip Millar: there's some good there, there's a lot of deep stuff in there. But, you know, I, I love studying behavior, psychological, uh, you know, human psychology, human behavior. You probably listen to the behavior panel and that stuff, but [00:17:43] Travis Bader: mm-hmm. [00:17:43] Phillip Millar: It's just like how to convey a message. Like I think the essence of some of that information warfare is as sun Sue said, to win the war, you know, without firing a shot, right? Mm-hmm. So you prep the battlefield, like I can tell you when I go to, on some cases I might be revealing some of my secrets, [00:18:00] but with arrogant, opposing counsel, I'll raise issues and make it look like they're really important. [00:18:04] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. And I'll [00:18:05] Phillip Millar: get into fake arguments where I look like I'm losing my shit and I have no intention of arguing them. [00:18:10] Travis Bader: Right. [00:18:10] Phillip Millar: And so, because I've insulted them, they overreact. They produce like a hundred pages of stuff that I'm not even gonna do, but I know what my, so you kind of, you pick your best course of action. Mm-hmm. You look at what your second best course of action is, and then you look at what are indicators to my opponent that I've taken this course of action, and then you stop, start dropping out intel, black, gray, and white sources to make it look like this is true in business. This is true in anything. Sure, sure. That make it look like, you know, if you're in business, you, you make your competitor think you're going with this course of action and you start dropping stories on Instagram or LinkedIn, you know, so you, you make them plan against your false plan that's called deception planning. That's very cool. And then you identify what are the things that would reveal to your opponent that you're doing your preferred course of action. And then you [00:19:00] really protect from showing those things. It gets, uh, [00:19:03] Travis Bader: it's like an elaborate game of rock, paper, scissors. [00:19:06] Phillip Millar: Yeah. I can not tell you like an interesting way I took on a a, a good case. Where this guy, um, was a good guy, you know, a little misguided from his friends, but was worth a heck of a lot of money and was defrauded by a well-known financial company, uh, that I can't name about 800, about, I'd say about 30 million bucks. Mm-hmm. And he had paid $800,000 in legal fees to one of the big names and had gotten nothing came to me in the last set at a last ditch effort, I flew out to Alberta. Mm-hmm. And what I realized that the nature of the financial institution, I was able to identify where the vulnerable points were. And it wasn't fighting them where they had Unle Unlimited legals. Um, okay, now I'll just switch to a hypothetical in case anybody is is Sure. So identified where the vulnerabil the vulnerable point was. And it was the spouses of the board of [00:20:00] directors. So by some way, the spouses started getting emails from people who sounded like they were investigating Rico claims claims. Hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And when you're in a financial institution that may have issues with clean versus dirty money [00:20:15] Travis Bader: mm-hmm. You know, [00:20:16] Phillip Millar: these kind of inquiries to the spouses and in this particular culture, spouses are very influential mm-hmm. [00:20:22] Travis Bader: And protected, [00:20:22] Phillip Millar: right? Mm-hmm. Within two weeks that things settle. Funny how that works. Hey, right? Like it's in, like, but that's the type of thinking that's not really out there. But, you know, these people were criminals. So [00:20:34] Travis Bader: you change the conversation into something that, uh, maybe they're just not comfortable having in the moment. [00:20:40] Phillip Millar: Yeah. But that's what you have to do when you're doing like second or third order thinking is find out where the leverage points are in the information world and go there. But most lawyers are just happy to keep billing and they just, yeah, they just keep billing and they're doing what they're supposed to do. They're not being crooked or criminal, they're just staying on the legal path. And people [00:21:00] just hope that it'll work out for 'em, but it's not the best way off. [00:21:03] Travis Bader: Well, they don't care. Right? What they care about is the money at the end of the day, and most don't have that vested interest in caring about the client. Some do, but uh, but many just aren't as creative. They're not entrepreneur minded or, uh, outta the box sort of thinking to be able to. It's not a creative [00:21:19] Phillip Millar: industry. Like there, there's, there's nothing, there's nothing on the LSAT about being creative or even, even like the way to get into law school. There's really nothing about being able to story tell or being able to understand human behavior or have empathy or identify deception or 'cause nobody says what they're really thinking. They say what they think society wants 'em to say. [00:21:40] Travis Bader: That's right. [00:21:40] Phillip Millar: Right. We call that social desirability bias, and that's why so many polls are, I saw in garbage Canadian newspaper today, majority of Canadians polls would, would volunteer for a war if there was one. I'm like, sure they would when they're asked on a phone call, like, what are they gonna say? No, I'm a coward. Like that's, yeah, exactly. But it becomes like a, a [00:22:00] front page story in the national news. Like our society have become toddlers. Mm-hmm. And nobody is thinking, [00:22:06] Travis Bader: well, I see, I see a bit of a switch. I mean, when you talk about COVID being a, an instigator for a societal change. Mm-hmm. And a hundred percent I agree with that. Um, and you took on a number of COVID cases and worked in that area where other people were too afraid in a time when people even raising their voices to question it, were being heavily sanctioned. Um, but I also see a bit of a swing of the pendulum coming back. Not fast enough as I'd like, but I do see a little bit of that swing coming back where people can talk about things a little bit differently and it, it isn't such a touchy feely, um, uh, area that we were in before. Do you, are you seeing that, or is that just From my perspective? [00:22:47] Phillip Millar: So it's definitely happening. Um. More in the US and in Canada, you know, Canada. I think we just missed a good opportunity to kind of jump on that, on that train a little bit. [00:22:59] Travis Bader: Hmm. [00:22:59] Phillip Millar: [00:23:00] Um, in, in the private industry. Yes. That's why like, I only wanna work with founders in, in the business when I'm doing business coaches because public companies, because they're governed by shareholders and ESG ratings, they are just a cesspool of ineffective, useless tools who are virtue signaling and you can't get anything done. Mm-hmm. And if you say anything, you can be canceled. So in these corporations, they're still living in their own world where they can't say what's really happening. But with founders, like I, that's why I really resonate with, I find entrepreneurs are like military special forces people. They actually put everything on the table. Mm-hmm. They actually put the hours in. They're not calling phoning in a nine to five. They believe in something. Their team has to be aligned. They have to build people up. Founders are. Amazing to work with, but all we see in the news are big corporations. And so everybody is copying these big corporations like Lululemon showing their running ambassador to be an obese woman. Sure. That's their running [00:24:00] ambassador. Like how, how has our society gotten to the point where that's, that makes sense and the company can still be in business? I, I think they're [00:24:06] Travis Bader: having some issues. Um, from, from what I understand, I didn't, I didn't see the obese woman, uh, ambassador, but that, that doesn't make sense. But I'll tell you like [00:24:16] Phillip Millar: an example, Camille, my partner in that business and my life partner, she went on a very well-known, uh, podcast out of LA called Skinny Confidential. And she was like, should I talk about Lululemon running Ambassador? You should look it up on your computer and show the picture. Like there are so many women who are amazing examples of running ambassadors. [00:24:35] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:24:35] Phillip Millar: And Lululemon's was literally not chunky, not big bone, but obese. Sure. Right. And then it's like one of my purest joys is running ultra marathons. And so, okay. Like, whoa. Okay. So Camille calls that out on this podcast and it just goes purely viral and everybody, there are the trolls attacking it, but almost nine to one they were going. So it echoes your point that people are fed up with it because on this kind [00:25:00] of liberal LA podcast, people are like, yeah, what the F is going on here? So I think, yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, I'm encouraging people to say things that aren't mean-spirited or wrong, but things that need to be said in order to take back the podium. [00:25:12] Travis Bader: Mm. So you're, you're talking about special forces and it being kind of like a special forces operation. And I noticed over your shoulder, I think you called it a cookery. I generally call it a kri. Yeah. Um. The, uh, the gir are known for, uh, for that knife in the back. Yeah. Uh, how'd, how'd you get that one? [00:25:32] Phillip Millar: I just, I was overseas in Bosnia at a divisional headquarters, and they had a GIR battalion that was responsible for the security. [00:25:41] Travis Bader: Mm. Uh, [00:25:42] Phillip Millar: if any, if the, if any of the Yanks or Canadian, uh, service servicemen or women ever, ever served with them. The Brits are good, but I was an officer, but they, you know, we kind of call them Ruperts sometimes, like they're a little bit very polite, but the Kers are hardcore. And I was a Canadian who, you know, had gotten my hands dirty in the [00:26:00] infantry. So I, I, I got, I became friends with 'em and they would invite me into their mess and we would hang out and I would secretly help them when they get screwed over. So they gave me the cookery, which is their famous knife for slitting throats, cut off heads and just said how they hadn't really seen a Canadian before that. So that, that's one of my precious gifts. [00:26:18] Travis Bader: Yeah, that's gonna have some value for sure. Mm-hmm. You know, when you first came onto my radar, um, I was seeing you, there's a clip that went around the firearms community, and you're talking about, uh, uh, judicious use of force, essentially. Mm-hmm. The misconception of, uh, they pull a knife, you gotta pull a knife, they throw a punch, you pull a, a punch, and you took the more Malone, uh, approach. If they pull a knife, you pull a gun, they send one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue. The guy from, uh, caught from untouchables there. Um, what, um, and, and recently Doug Ford's talking about Castle doctrine. Uh, is this an area of law that you've had some experience in, or is this more from your [00:27:00] personal standpoint and background with the military? [00:27:03] Phillip Millar: Yeah, well, uh, you know, was the use. You know, firearms instructor, you know, so I know firearms. And then I lived through the United Nations missions where, you know, we deploy over to Sarajevo and we're told you're only allowed to shoot back with what's being shot at you. You know, but you can't tell if a 7 6 2 is a sniper or a, or a single shot. Like, so it was just nonsense to hamstring people. And we had some issues overseas with that. And, uh, you know, I've, I've prosecuted some of those cases and I've defended some cases from police officers, uh, and, and citizens. It's just, I'm not giving people legal advice 'cause it's a dangerous area. It depends on your jurisdiction, it depends on, it's interesting. Some police officers have all the power. Mm-hmm. They won't charge you. Mm-hmm. Right. If, if you are defending your home, because it's a split second decision, who, who knows what's happening in a split sec section? Mm-hmm. You know, like when, uh, an officer gets charged for shooting somebody who's got a knife and they're eight feet away. Mm-hmm. [00:27:58] Travis Bader: Right. [00:27:59] Phillip Millar: [00:28:00] No jury knows how fast somebody can come at them with a knife. You have, you know, like, so you have to be very, very careful. But when your life is on the line, you know, as long as you're not, you know, dumping eight rounds in somebody who's on the ground, like, you know, like you have to make the call that preserves life. But there's this, there's so little understanding. There's a case where somebody, you know, emptied 10 rounds at somebody. Mm-hmm. [00:28:23] Travis Bader: And they [00:28:24] Phillip Millar: tried to put him as a racist and a freak. But it was the young officer's first time discharging his weapon in a live fire situation. Sure. And so we pulled, we pulled the records of training and the police force, all they ever did was like static, you know, 25 rounds every three months into a paper target. [00:28:43] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:28:44] Phillip Millar: That's very different. Uh, taxation on the nervous system than getting in a life fire situation with somebody who's got a gun or a knife. Mm-hmm. And what happens is the brain just. Collapses. 'cause you haven't rehearsed in a, in a realistic way and pulled, pulled the trigger eight times. Not because he was, he just [00:29:00] didn't know it. And I had another case where they pressed the trigger 15 times, unsafe. I trained police officer. Like, it's really unusual if you don't, if you don't train realistically, you know this in your, I'm not telling you anything new, but the nuances of those trials have to be navigated through creating the right story to, to allow the trier fact to understand what the person was experiencing in their home. You know, and for, you know, in, in, in Canada it's gone ludicrous what they'll charge people for. In the states, you can go too far like, you know. Mm-hmm. An Uber driver comes on the property and gets lit up by a, a semi-automatic, like, you know Right. That person has no defense. So you, there's a, there's a common sense to it, but, uh, I don't know. I think people are paralyzed to do anything these days. [00:29:46] Travis Bader: I think so, and I think the police by and large are more likely to lay charges and let the courts figure it out than they are to put their butt on the line and make the judgment call not to, for whatever liability that might be associated [00:30:00] with it. [00:30:00] Phillip Millar: Well, you saw it. It's, it's horrible. What's infected? The police forces. I couldn't, it'd be very hard to be a police officer today because our organizations like the military, the police and government, you get promoted for obedience and compliance. [00:30:13] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:30:14] Phillip Millar: Right. Like the way you get move up the ranks is you do what the top person says, which is make your political masters hap happy. [00:30:21] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:30:22] Phillip Millar: And like the, we had that hockey, uh, the hockey player case in Ontario, where I know the police officer who investigated that, he did a great job of investigating this assault case and didn't charge. Mm-hmm. And then three years later it gets in the paper, a lawyer is sued for money and all of a sudden the police chief is apologizing for bat the police chief. Every cell in my body. I know he knows it. I'm talking to you. If you're listening to it, you know it was a good investigation. But you know, you, you, mm-hmm. You turtled for political pressure to make people happy because they don't, you know, there's no courage left in leadership, I find, and it's destroying the moralities [00:31:00] forces. [00:31:01] Travis Bader: Yeah. I mean, courage has been bred out. Yeah. And it's systematically promoted out of, uh, of a lot of our, our government leadership roles. How now you're in a position and being able to touch within the legal world of bringing that all to light, and you're doing, you're doing a, a, a good job at, at bringing this up through the podcast and through your work, how do you see that changing? How do you see courage being properly rewarded so that we, we have a system that encourages it. You know, [00:31:36] Phillip Millar: I've, I've. My, my political leanings have changed over the years. I think when I was in the military, I like to lean a little left because the majority of people were conservative. Like, I like being the person who pushes against, you know, now I'm seen as more conservative, but a lot of it has to do with the politics. You know what I mean? What you reward is what you get or what you incentivize is what you get in business or in politics. And when it comes to [00:32:00] militaries, you just compare the Biden administration, the Trudeau administration, and you see who they promoted in the militaries and they absolutely decimated the militaries. [00:32:09] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. As they [00:32:09] Phillip Millar: were trying to use the military. One, I think especially Trudeau, he wanted to, he wanted to attack anything that represented masculinity. Mm-hmm. And the most masculine department in any government is the military, like it or not. That's what it is. And so, uh, his staff and his people wanted to show them that we could control you. Mm-hmm. Right. And so that resulted in a fundamental change over eight years of leadership. That destroyed our military. Like I don't, I think we have very low capacity at the moment, but if you get a, if you get kind of a regime or political change that incentivizes something else, you can bring it back. [00:32:46] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:32:46] Phillip Millar: But generally, culture comes from the top. Right? A new A CEO or a founder can create a culture, a president with courage, he or she can create a culture and you need to kind of affect political [00:33:00] change, I think, to get it at the level that we're talking about at the nation state level. [00:33:03] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:33:04] Phillip Millar: In your company, it's you as the founder that creates the culture. [00:33:08] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:33:09] Phillip Millar: So fire your HR people, step up and lead your company. [00:33:13] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Well, from the, uh, from a political level, you're gonna have to have people who have the, have the kaons to actually vote somebody in who's gonna make that that change and have the courage to be able to, um, uh, to be brave, to push things forward. It's [00:33:31] Phillip Millar: just so hard. Trump, Trump is very unique in that his ability to connect with people and play like that guy appears. Many people say he doesn't appear that intellectual, but he is actually brilliant from a messaging perspective in terms of being able to, to elicit support in one way. And so he was able to kind of fight off mainstream media that was taking him down. [00:33:53] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. In [00:33:53] Phillip Millar: Canada, our conservative party, I know the people who are advising him. Nice enough people, a bunch of lawyers complete [00:34:00] bonehead when it comes to strategy. You know, they still, I've talked to still to this day, say, no conservative party leader will ever go on Rogan. And I just, I just wanna start his and my head against the wall. Sure. How stupid it is because, but they shouldn't be in charge. But the leader has to have the courage to fire the psycho fans who encircle him or her and go with their gut. Like I think Pierre Piel Pev knew kind of what to do, but was just surrounded by people who are risk averse. [00:34:29] Travis Bader: Yeah, you're, you're playing by the other side's rules at that point. As opposed to making your own, [00:34:34] Phillip Millar: if you're gonna be hated, be hated, you know what I mean? But be hated for the right reason. Double down on, I'm gonna go into Joe Rogan 'cause I wanna have a great conversation. Mm-hmm. Right. Trump doesn't hate Canada. Trump hates liberal Trudeau's Canada. Right. Trump loves Canadians. He loves to strong Canadians. We've kicked ass like if I was PIB, we kicked ass in all the world wars. We kicked your ass in 1812, by the way, we kicked your ass in market. Right. Yeah. Trump like strength, I'll represent Canada being strong. Canada should be strong. Like that would've just [00:35:00] gone all across the nation mm-hmm. Of Canada and, and would've got support for him. Instead, he turtled, you know, and tried to play the liberal game by going on CC, it's not gonna work. [00:35:10] Travis Bader: So if you're going to, um, if you're going to play the strategy game at the micro level as opposed to at the macro level mm-hmm. If you're gonna start telling stories within a business and building brand, that's something that you do with, uh, third Eye insights. Yeah. What does that look like? [00:35:32] Phillip Millar: It's, it's, it's kind of an extension of what we're talking about. I think you intuitively get it, but it's, you, you know, you don't use the big agencies, the big agencies are doing, you know what the big law firms are doing? They're making money off of your anxiety. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, there, there's, so, there's so much, um, decentralization, decent decentralization of power that you wanna operate like a gorilla unit. And what social media does is allow you to build a community at low cost if you have the courage to say something [00:36:00] interesting to be authentic to your community. Right. So, I've helped some smaller politicians. It's hard in a na when you have a national party 'cause they don't allow them to do anything. [00:36:10] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:36:11] Phillip Millar: But, you know, you just post every day like you can kind of geo-target to, to communities. So you identify in your riding where you need to win that middle, and then you just post every day on issues that, that resonate with the, with the person in their house who. Who will see it on Instagram every day, or Facebook is an amazing platform to communicate with people through dynamic posts and authentic posts. So, you know, a small player can take down a huge player by using gorilla tactics in the digital room, but most of the agencies don't do it because they make money doing things the old way. They want you to spend a fortune on Google, SEO, which is useless today. Right. Is it really? Okay. Google. SEO No, Google. Most of the searches are happening on TikTok and Instagram. [00:36:53] Travis Bader: That's true. And AI's kind of killing the whole, uh, uh, Google, I mean, people would say, wants to [00:36:59] Phillip Millar: see of three [00:37:00] pages of ads to find something at the end. Like it's just Right. But it's a model that's worked for 25 years. So you go to a big agency and they spend, uh, 50 grand a month. Whereas if you put that 50 grand a month on doing amazing content reaching out, like you, you would just kill your competition. [00:37:16] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:37:16] Phillip Millar: But your content has to be creative too, right? Like, so that's the problem too. Most people get on social media and, and just do what everybody else is doing. Like LinkedIn is the worst place in the world to hear people humble bragging about, you know, I got nominated by a bunch of, you know, lawyers that don't stick their neck out for being somebody else who doesn't stick my neck out. Like, [00:37:37] Travis Bader: who cares? [00:37:38] Phillip Millar: Right. What old, that's why I don't lot of business because I say things Yeah. That people don't wanna say and lawyers don't say anything. Interesting. [00:37:46] Travis Bader: Your TikTok account, so you're, you're the rogue lawyer. Yeah. That's your, uh, that's your, your brand and account on social media. Um, what, what platform are, are you finding the most effective TikTok, Instagram, [00:38:00] Facebook, LinkedIn, [00:38:02] Phillip Millar: you know, YouTube I think I can share with you 'cause we're fairly good in this area and I think your, your community might like it. And Camille has a social media masterclass that goes out on this, but, um, Instagram is me. So when you're on Instagram, you're showing what you do. Here's what I'm eating, here's what I'm doing. Right. Um, LinkedIn is us. This is my community. Facebook is we. Yep. Right. And, um, TikTok is you. So TikTok, most people go on for entertainment. So if you're making TikTok content, you wanna make it to be entertaining for other people. Mm-hmm. If you're making Instagram content, you wanna make it so your potential clients can get to know you before they hire you. So the consult happens for your business or your profession before they meet you, they look you at Instagram, they say, ah, I like, oh, this guy went there. I love Yellowstone. Or this guy, you know, went hiking. I love, you know, so they get to know you. [00:39:00] Uh, Facebook, you build communities and groups. It's, we, it's where you share pictures of your family and your friends and things you do, and Facebook has probably got the most value for dollar spend right now. [00:39:10] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:39:11] Phillip Millar: Facebook really connects with people who, who connect. Uh, and as I said, LinkedIn is we where if you wanna connect with business B2B or businesses, or elevate your role a amongst your peers, then you can kind of put articles in and, and do that. So that's the strategy. Facebook produces the most results dollar for dollar if you make good content. [00:39:30] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:39:31] Phillip Millar: Instagram is kind of the most addictive to look at who's liking you. Mm-hmm. Uh, YouTube pays the best. [00:39:37] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. But [00:39:37] Phillip Millar: YouTube is the hardest to build. So YouTube actually pays its creators the most. But you really gotta invest two years of hardcore work where you can get a viral video on. TikTok or Instagram and do well. [00:39:49] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. But like, [00:39:49] Phillip Millar: if you have creators who wanna get in, YouTube is the place I think, uh, to connect the best. So you have a different strategy for all of them, but you can use the same content repurposed a little bit, you know, [00:40:00] if you're making content. That's what I'd say. [00:40:02] Travis Bader: So, you know, back to what we're talking about a little bit earlier. Uh, if, without giving legal advice, um, what, what would somebody breaks into your house two o'clock in the morning? Mm-hmm. Um, what, what's the sort of framework that people should have in their mind? [00:40:22] Phillip Millar: Well, know your jurisdiction first of all. Right? If you're in Texas, it's different than if you're in Quebec, right? Mm-hmm. You have to, you have to understand that you, where you choose to live is where you choose the rules that you have to live by. Right? And in some places it's a little safer than others. Uh, and that comes to different things. So. You know, personally, if somebody breaks into my house, like you wanna have the opportunity to figure out is it the neighbors who think, is it like the neighbor's kids who think you're away on vacation and are looking for booze? [00:40:53] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. Right. [00:40:54] Phillip Millar: You know? Or is it a home invasion because they wanna come in and take your Rolexes and they don't care if they kill you in [00:41:00] the process. [00:41:01] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:41:02] Phillip Millar: Uh, our jurisdiction isn't as friendly towards if you make a mistake and shoot two 14 year olds. [00:41:07] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:41:07] Phillip Millar: Right. Like you're gonna have a really tough trial. Yeah. Especially if they don't have weapons. Right. And that's the problem is some people become extra skittish too, and some people live for an opportunity to shoot an intruder in their head. They're just always fantasizing about being legally able to do it. And sure that that can get sussed out. Right. If pretty quick you have a strong ground. But that one case I think I talked about a while ago, where a guy came in with a weapon. And was breaking in and wouldn't leave and was walking towards them. Well, I'm just gonna put two in the chest and one in the head like the [00:41:38] Travis Bader: mm-hmm. [00:41:39] Phillip Millar: You know, I'm not gonna, but it, it, it's a split second decision and we know it's better to at least have a chance to win, you know, at a, at, in front of a jury than, than have a funeral. So, mm-hmm. The, the, the thing I always say is don't try to subscribe to an ideology that just says, this is always the best, or this is always the best. Right. You have to [00:42:00] be an intelligent, smart human who can assess threats, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, um, you know, it's, it is just not like you're like, oh, somebody broke in it's dark. I can just pop them, right? Mm-hmm. In, in some jurisdictions you're gonna go down, even though really, maybe you had a legitimate reason to do it, you're gonna go down. So you don't wanna leave your family alone. You know, you know, as opposed to, you know, go into your room, uh, make sure your family's there and, and lock the door. And if somebody comes in, then take 'em. But like, if you get your gun and walk through the house looking for them and they're crawling out your window, you know, you don't wanna put a round in their back. Right. And then claim that you were terrified. So [00:42:38] Travis Bader: I, [00:42:38] Phillip Millar: I said this phrase I got in, in, in shit for it, but I stand by it. Like nuance is the new N word, and I don't say that racially at all. Mm-hmm. [00:42:46] Travis Bader: I mean, like [00:42:47] Phillip Millar: society has, you're not allowed to have nuance. Right. Everybody just wants to say it's this or that, but every situation has nuance. The answers are often in the gray areas, in a facts specific [00:43:00] scenario where, you know, I can't give somebody one, one recipe that works all the time. Right. And, and, and that's where I think sometimes in, in the self-defense community, they're so busy saying, if this happens, I will do this. That works in some states. Right. And, and, and that affects, but those states have decided to have those rules. Sure. If you live in, if you live in a state that doesn't have it, there's no sense sacrificing yourself in the altar of justice because you think you're right about something that your jurisdiction doesn't support. [00:43:30] Travis Bader: It reminds me of the, um, uh, that old poem, what was it? His way was right as Will was strong. He's just as dead as if he was wrong. And I think, I think it was the stoplight or the crossing walk. Hey, they got a red, I can walk. Here we go. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're in the right, but you're dead. Right. Where was that poem from? I like that. That's a good call. Uh, you know what? I don't know. So I'll pull it up after this and I'll, I'll find in the notes. [00:43:53] Phillip Millar: Yeah. 'cause that's a cool poem. I'm gonna use that in a, in a jury trial one day and attribute it to you. [00:43:58] Travis Bader: Thank you. Well tune to the [00:44:00] author of the poem. It's like, uh oh. Michael Scott's quote, uh, you miss, uh, a hundred percent of the shots. You never take Michael Scott underneath it. Wayne Gretzky. Yeah. So you could do that. No problem. You can put Travis Bader underneath it. Sure. [00:44:13] Phillip Millar: You know what quote I like in, um, I think your audience gets it because there's so many fake. Tough guys out there these days, but it comes from, um, I think it's, uh, Julius Caesar, Shakespeare's play, but he goes, how brave upon your chin, you wear the be beard of Hercules, but when inward searched, have a liver white as milk. [00:44:32] Travis Bader: Oh, I like it. [00:44:34] Phillip Millar: Right. You know, like, yeah, it's so true. Like they're just, you're wearing this, but you know, when push comes to shove, you really won't stand up for your morals. But then I don't want people to take that to mean, you know, go too far to be right. But, you know, like, I like these, uh, these things, these days. [00:44:49] Travis Bader: Most people don't get tested, though most people don't have that level of being able to be tested and seeing where they would actually stand and Oh, true. And [00:45:00] unfortunately, a lot of times the, the testing stage is, uh, is a bit of a foreign environment it seems now where, um. You can get tested on the playground and stand up and fight. Okay. We know where you're at. Getting tested in the public eye for cancel culture. All the rest going through COVID was a good place for, uh, uh, checking kind of where people stand when they're being pushed. And some people, I, I saw three people. I saw the people who capitulated. I saw the people who vociferously stood up and fought against it. And, uh, and then I saw the people who just did their own thing quietly and they made it work for themselves and for their families. Um, which was kind of interesting. [00:45:41] Phillip Millar: You know, I've tried to help some people. I get calls so often from people on them who suffered on the vaccine side. And again, it comes down to human psychology. It's, it's, everything is actually more complicated. Although first principles matter, we get directed in a way, you know, 'cause. [00:46:00] There was a lot of really good service members who lost their careers 'cause of a vaccine stance. And the military knew it was an illegal order. We know that to kick people out, they did it anyhow because they were told to do it. It's a travesty, but you know, the vigor in which some people said, I won't get a vaccine, I understand that. And they said it was spiritual. But back in the days of Somalia and Rwanda, when we had those missions [00:46:26] Travis Bader: mm-hmm. [00:46:26] Phillip Millar: The people from the exact same communities, when they were told they can go over there and they're gonna be able to blow up shit and do Yeah. All you gotta do is get a vaccine, they sprinted with a rucksack to the vaccine line, [00:46:37] Travis Bader: get up to the needle parade and go on through. [00:46:39] Phillip Millar: Oh. But you know what I mean? But it's because it was a different frame of mind. And what can happen to us as we kind of polarize is things tend to matter more. And I'm not saying it's, it's, that's just about the vaccines, but we can, we people can really kinda hurt their overall success trying to be right on discreet issues. [00:46:56] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:46:56] Phillip Millar: Right. Rather than say like, I helped, um. James Top, the [00:47:00] guy who walked across Canada. [00:47:01] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:47:02] Phillip Millar: YI don't know if you're familiar with that. Cool service guy is a warrant officer who, uh, criticized the government's policy and they court-martialed him, but he walked across Canada. That's the scene where Pierre Pollier walked with him into Ottawa. [00:47:14] Travis Bader: Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. He's actually the guy I [00:47:16] Phillip Millar: think that's responsible for ending the vaccine mandates in Canada that walk across Canada. Two weeks later they ended them. It wasn't really the trucker convoy. He walked across quietly, but then the military at the direction of the liberal government decided they were still gonna punish him. And so they court-martialed him for disobeying a lawful order. And I represented him to try and help him. And he was one of the most skilled, like sniper Wrecky. Just a really cool service guy. Yeah. But he put on his uniform and went to a protest and criticized the government. And it's very hard to win that case. You're just not allowed to do it in uniform. Right. Like, and he lost everything. [00:47:54] Travis Bader: Yeah. And that's, that's rather disheartening. Uh, and the politics behind our laws [00:48:00] are, are rather disheartening. But you've, you've been known to go up against the big machine, against the man and there, I mean, you know, I remember years ago, I, when I started the Silver Court Club, uh, originally I started this club based on the conversation I had with the firearms officer, firearms Office, uh, program says, okay, if you want to get an authorization to transport your restricted firearms, you're gonna have to belong to a gun club or arrange. And I read through the Firearms Act and the regulations and I said, you know what? I don't think you guys have the, uh, the legal authority to do this. It's not in legislation, it's not in regulation. You're creating policy and you're enacting it as if it's got some sort of legal weight behind it. And, uh, firearms officer calls me up and, 'cause we're going back and forth for a while, he says, Travis, Travis, hold on a second. You're right. Uh, I agree with you. Mm-hmm. But we're the federal government. We'll hang it up in the courts for years. You're never gonna win. He says, why don't you just start a [00:49:00] club? I said, well, I'm not, I don't have a range. He says, I didn't say range. I said, start a club. A club. Ah. I'm like, oh, okay. Interesting. So I took all the money that I'd put towards lawyers at this point to fight this. 'cause I told him, I'm taking it to court. We're gonna have a legal challenge. Right. And I, uh, then put that all towards putting a club together and ran it at a loss for many, many years. It's a nonprofit, but I did it specifically to provide a path forward for people that were being railroaded. Firearms program loves it because people are now complying. So there, there's a way forward to win this. Um. But the idea of fighting it within the constraints of, let's say, the courtroom I, and not to tangent too far, but another one that, uh, was just eyeopening to me was a, uh, uh, a reference hearing on a, I think it was a tight 97 a, uh, firearm, an ease of conversion. And, uh, I was called into opine on the ease of conversion. And so I'm subject matter expert for the, um, [00:50:00] uh, for one side. And it was easy to convert. And, uh, so as a subject matter for the court, not for one side, I say, yeah, it's easy to convert. I mean, I'm supposed to provide the best information for the court. Get up, give my two bits. And then I sit down and I see the, uh, crown expert, who's a very well-known name. And in my opinion, uh, uh, what's the, what's the polite term I learned from lawyers grossly misrepresented the truth. Um. When he didn't need to, had he heard what I said, I mean, it would be easy for him. Anyways, he went in there and I'm looking, I'm watching this. I'm like, holy crap. How can this person lie to such an extent and, uh, the court actually buy it? It's, it's, it's absolutely easy to see through. And when all was said and done, it really didn't matter. Um, what he said. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter, uh, that he lied or what he went through. All that really [00:51:00] mattered was, was the proper protocol followed when they were making the decision to prohibit this one firearm. So really that reference in, in from my experience was neither here nor there, that you could make all of the right decisions in making a, uh, a final decision and make that final decision completely wrong. And it would still, that wrong decision would stand. So going up against a man is a stacked deck. How do you deal with that? [00:51:30] Phillip Millar: Interesting. You know, it, it's a different version of asymmetric warfare. Like, you know, you, you don't fight, you know, a land battle in Russia with 10, you know what I mean? Like, you, you have to pick your battleground, right? Mm-hmm. And when it's, you don't go into a resource war with somebody. But for example, I'm representing Lieutenant General Waylan. [00:51:49] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. You [00:51:49] Phillip Millar: know, the third highest ranking general who got submarined by the liberal government. That was a case. But you know, I subpoenaed the chief of defense staff, the [00:52:00] liberal government through, you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. So they dropped the charges in the end. But you know that, that he was the one general who had the courage to kind of really take them on. [00:52:10] Travis Bader: Mm. [00:52:10] Phillip Millar: And we got a book that's gonna be coming out as well called Betrayed. That's gonna be spectacular exposing what really goes on up there, because most generals write books just fucking telling them about their career and how amazing they're, and they make, wanna stick a fork in my eye. Like I want a general to say something interesting, a Canadian general at least. Uh, but, you know, subpoenaing people who didn't want to be on the stand and tell the truth because they would be lying. [00:52:36] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [00:52:37] Phillip Millar: That w that was kind of a tactical move that helped us win that case. [00:52:41] Travis Bader: Mm. Because [00:52:42] Phillip Millar: they would not allow themselves to be exposed. And so they just thought, they kept trying to give better deals, better deals, better deals. But they were dealing with a man of principle who wouldn't take their fucking deal. [00:52:51] Travis Bader: Yep. [00:52:51] Phillip Millar: And then in the end, they cave. But it's po you know, a lot of it's kind of poker too, right? Like it's, uh, but there's risks because sometimes you can have the best hand [00:53:00] and you got a two outta three chance of winning and you don't win. Like, it's terrifying. [00:53:04] Travis Bader: Yeah, I, and uh, the statistic I've heard you go in a hundred percent case you're a hundred percent, you got everything in your favor and you got a 70% chance of winning. [00:53:12] Phillip Millar: Yeah. [00:53:13] Travis Bader: It's, it's, [00:53:13] Phillip Millar: it's not right, but I think it can also be self-interested as long as you're not doing it for the purpose of your own promotion. Like, you know, it, it also can help you to, like I tell people all the time, take on a tough case or take on a tough issue. Just be be honest and authentic about it. Like, don't be mean, don't lie. Like some people are just shitty people who, who take, who take on cases. But if you believe that there's an injustice or something that needs to be done in your industry that's unpopular, like be the, be the agent of change by daring to step up and I think generally over a lifetime, you succeed if you do that. And then don't be sus, don't be scared to pull, pull at strings. That are dangling over there, but it's hard if you don't have the resources. [00:53:58] Travis Bader: Well, something I've [00:54:00] kinda learned and learned at a, uh, at an earlier age is, um, you know, most people that come up with all the excuses, I can't do it because look at what I have to lose. I can't do it 'cause I don't have enough money or I can't do it because, and it's surprising how much an individual can actually affect positive change if they're willing to stand up and if they think about a little bit, like if you wanna play the game by the opposition's rules, it'll be just like the firearms officer said to me, we're the federal government. We'll hang it up in court for years. You're never gonna win. Right. Um, but. If you change the conversation, one thing that I've seen work effectively well is, um, media being able to, and the way that media works now with us being able to self broadcast through social media, there is a, uh, a narrative that the opposition might not want to tackle. Like I, I remember one case with a, uh, a corrupt police officer, and, um, it wasn't [00:55:00] until, uh, I threatened to get the media involved that he actually ended up facing charges and he'd been under investigation for, for some time. And I looked at all my legal resources and I've ended up using that exact same process and friends in the media to be able to, uh, push what should be done and what should be right forward. [00:55:21] Phillip Millar: The, uh, it's in, it's so true because it's exhausting and it's intimidating, but sometimes you don't know how close you are to victory because the. The, the institutional power players always act like they're winning even when they lose. Oh, yeah. Even, even up until a day, they'll always look at you are, have you lost your mind? You're never gonna win this. Even though in the back, they're seconds away. I love that. There's another quote, I don't remember who said it, like, on the planes of battle by the black and bones, countless, thousands on the verge of victory, sat down to rest and resting died. Like, just keep pushing until you can't go anymore. Like [00:56:00] it's, uh, but don't do it stupidly. That's what I wanna get across to people like the truckers convoy. I was telling you, the truckers convoy, I was desperately trying to get access to some of them to help them because what I would've said, we could have totally destroyed the government if they just parked their cars offsite and three times a day drove through the downtown very slow. Making noise, but then in the end took their track and then all of them came in person and sat on Parliament Hill and called for Trudeau to come and talk to them. [00:56:31] Travis Bader: Hmm. [00:56:32] Phillip Millar: Like you would've won that debate because he was a coward. He wouldn't come out and talk to them. [00:56:36] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. But [00:56:36] Phillip Millar: when you strategically and tactically when you park tractor trailers in the whole downtown, it, it changes the dynamic even though they were amazing humans who were doing great things. Mm-hmm. Strategically, they didn't know how to take on the big guy. They thought just good intentions would win. You know, or being good people, it's not the case. Like you need to get people in who can think at that level. Mm-hmm. [00:57:00] But, you know, asymmetric warfare is the only way to kinda win when there's a power imbalance. [00:57:05] Travis Bader: And that's something that, uh, that you do well. That's, uh, have you seen many other lawyers or law firms do that? [00:57:15] Phillip Millar: I've come across big law firms who will do it, but almost in a criminal way. [00:57:19] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. You know what I [00:57:19] Phillip Millar: mean? Like where they'll actually. Power corrupts, you know, in the big firms who work for big government agencies and whatever, like they'll do it, but it's, it's more like at, at the lower end or like at the, you just don't see it that often. Mm-hmm. Right. You, you don't see it that often, especially in making change. But I've met a lot of lawyers who genuinely care and do whatever they can. Mm-hmm. But you know, the, you also need to get training beyond law. Like I have strategic operations training, like all of this crazy training that put on top of law allows you to do it. So if you don't have that expertise, hire a consultant. Mm-hmm. Like if you're a lawyer who's taken on a, a case that matters a lot to you and you're going against a power player, [00:58:00] get somebody strategic on your team who can see things from a different perspective, who can identify those players. So I'll get hired. Uh, from time to time on cases to come on, not necessarily for the legal element, but for the strategic element or how to speak to a jury, but lawyers are arrogant, like a lot of professionals that they think they know everything. [00:58:18] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. And they [00:58:19] Phillip Millar: don't wanna share glory. They don't wanna share every, their, their identity is tied to winning because of them alone. Right. Which is theis of special ops or, or, or proper team planning. Like, yeah. You know, you need an EOD guy, you know, if you've got a bridge operation, you need a, you need a stipend. Like, but lawyers don't do that and a lot of organizations don't do it. They wanna just succeed with their own community and their own bubble. And yeah, you need to reach. [00:58:46] Travis Bader: Um, interesting one that, uh, you've probably seen before. There's a YouTube video called Never Talk to the Police. Have you seen that video [00:58:53] Phillip Millar: Shut up to Shut the fuck up guys? Yeah, [00:58:56] Travis Bader: I don't know what it, it's a really fast talker given a [00:59:00] presentation. He says, look it, I'm gonna give equal time, so I want to talk fast to get my point out, and he's gonna go up and talk, and I think he had a police officer come in and somebody of some importance or rank. This is a us, uh, older video. It's up on YouTube. Have you seen this one? I don't [00:59:17] Phillip Millar: know. I may have, [00:59:18] Travis Bader: but it's not popping into my head. Okay, so he, I, he goes up and he gives all these reasons why you should never talk to the police, even the most best intention, you're completely innocent and how it can go sideways and all these different examples. And then he stops talking and the police officer comes up for his rebuttal and the police officer says, I, I can't disagree with anything you say here. Right? Yeah. Um, have you encountered situations because I've got a little bit different, uh, idea on that whole Never talk to the police. Am I never talk to the police based on experience, um, personal experience as well as, uh, the consulting I've done is maybe it's okay to [01:00:00] strategically talk to the police. Like, ask questions. Why are you doing this? Do you think this is unlawful? And start cementing, like, if you're in a position, if you're an interrogation room and it's under video, if a body cam is being worn, if there's, uh, maybe this is not a bad time for you to use the opportunity to cement their position and create information. And a, um, uh, something for your defense to be able to use in the future. [01:00:26] Phillip Millar: So you kinda have different orders of thinking, right? Like if you, you're, you're absolutely right. Especially that's why I want body cams on every officer, like to protect the officer and to protect the citizen. Right. It, it, to me it's criminal that we don't have body cams. [01:00:40] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [01:00:41] Phillip Millar: I think it protects good officers. I think it protects the citizen. [01:00:44] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. Um, [01:00:45] Phillip Millar: the, um, you know, when officers come and, and ask me for help, I've had officers who know this, I tell 'em not to speak and they still get tricked into speaking to the police. 'cause when you're in that interrogation room and the stressors come up and you just, like, [01:01:00] I've had officers talk and blow a case where Yeah. You know, where they were actually innocent. So it's, it's easier said than done. The, uh, just on your point on the video, there's these la uh, Las Vegas lawyers who are now the top lawyers in Vegas. And they used social media, and all they did was do little TikTok videos saying, when the police come and talk to you, shut the fuck up. And they just have like, go to, it's just like, police come and do that. Shut the fuck up. Like, and they, it was simple, but it was such a powerful message. Yeah. They get hired. So business owners can use social media for that, but you have to be careful because some people think they're smarter than they are. Some people are smart enough, right? Sure. And it depends on the police officer you're talking to as well. So you gotta know your opponent. There are hammerhead officers who don't know what they're doing and can easily kind of be trapped into looking stupid or overextending the rights. And now you've got it on a video and it'll work for you. Mm. You know, if a detective comes up who's, uh, you know, knows the read technique and has done a, you know, you could try and play that [01:02:00] game and you don't know what they don't know whenever you're talking to them. Mm. So it can work. If it's a beat cop coming up who doesn't understand firearms law, that'll work. But if they're investigating a weapon smuggling thing and inadvertently stuff has come through your property, you don't know about it. You know what I mean? Like you, it's, it's always context based, right? Mm-hmm. So definitely when it comes to, you know, we see those videos on YouTube, like when on, on, when they're pulled over. But you know, in Canada now, you know, you have to produce your license and registration and identity and you have to blow. You don't even have to have any indications. So you need to know your jurisdictional rules. [01:02:33] Travis Bader: Mm. [01:02:33] Phillip Millar: And you can ask questions. I think sometimes it can make people get into more trouble by going against 'em. The only videos we see online of it working are the ones that worked. [01:02:45] Travis Bader: Yeah, that's a good point. [01:02:46] Phillip Millar: You know what I mean? We don't see how many people get shit kicked, you know what I mean? Yeah. Beat up or something else happens and, uh, and you get like 10 extra charges, which cost you 50,000 bucks, which doesn't, equivalent, doesn't mm-hmm. Equal the [01:03:00] revenue you're gonna get from 10,000 views, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. You know, be careful. Uh, but the firearms community, I, I'm with you. Most of the officers don't know the laws, especially in Canada, on storage use and all that. And they lay charges that are nonsense. And so I think, I think if you show that you're informed, ask them questions, you can, you can avoid a charge in those cases. [01:03:22] Travis Bader: Hmm. Yeah. I think with the firearms side, you know, what we tell people is go above and beyond. Yeah. I know where the bare minimum is. We'll teach what the bare minimum is, so you know where that threshold is if you're on one side or the other. Yeah. But go above and beyond so that a trier of fact can look at that and say, clearly they went above and beyond. Right. And, and, and you're not gonna [01:03:43] Phillip Millar: convince a hammerhead you're right. Anywhere. No. You never in the world. Anywhere in the world. Not a DMV desk. Not anywhere. Right. So sometimes you have to kind of pick your fights. Yeah. Uh, just avoid getting in shit is, is the best way to. [01:03:58] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah. And how do you avoid [01:04:00] that? What is one of our instructors? He says CYA, can you articulate? Right. So, uh, if you can articulate it, excellent. Uh, if you can, if you're like, well, you know, technically I'm allowed to, well, technically they can also charge you and you can have to [01:04:13] Phillip Millar: Yeah. Your listeners are blessed 'cause they have a higher level of information. And for the kind of less sophisticated officer, most of them are just worried about how much work this is gonna be. [01:04:24] Travis Bader: Yeah. [01:04:24] Phillip Millar: Like, how much paid for am I gonna be, am I gonna be embarrassed? So you can affect the play, you can pluck the playing field with that. [01:04:30] Travis Bader: Yep. That's a good point. Uh, with Third Eye, uh, how long have you been doing that and, uh, what are your preferred kind of clients? Who are the people that would really benefit from seeing you? Yeah. [01:04:40] Phillip Millar: I, I, I love that business. I kind of started about six or seven, seven years ago. My current wife, um, was actually asked to be an intern at the law firm. She wanted to be a lawyer, and she's a bit of a savant. Camille more, but like she's, she's well known across the internet [01:05:00] and um, she just came in and rebranded my logo and told me to get on Facebook. And then I was talking to her and I said, this aligns with a lot of the psyop and information warfare stuff. And I told her, don't go to law school lawyers suck. I said, I'll bankroll a branding and marketing company. 'cause I've always loved that business element. 'cause there's, there's real strategy. Mm-hmm. In that business owner, a lot of founders don't get the right advice. They're forces of nature in terms of their ability to create something. But you get to a ceiling and you can't get past the ceiling because you're what got you there is not what you need to get through the ceiling and you don't have good advisors. And I love coming into, I love working with those people who create things and then say, Hey, I'll, well this is what we gotta do. A few of these things. A little bit of accountability that, that brings the most joy. And it's not fighting asshole lawyers. Like, that's what I wanna do more of is help founders go from 2 million to 50 million. And they can do it, but they, if they, if you don't get the right, right advisors, you're just gonna kind of stay being exhausted [01:06:00] because there's only so much you can do with your, with in your area. So working with founders, I've turned down, we've turned down cons projects with big corporations. 'cause they're just woke. [01:06:12] Travis Bader: Right. [01:06:12] Phillip Millar: They think they want you, but you know, you can't get anything done. Right. So, you know, we, we work with a lot of, uh, Southern and western United States brands that are cool, you know, that are Yeah. That do kind of robust Yellowstone type stuff. And, uh, that, that, that's, that's what I enjoy doing. If I could work with more founders who have the right parts, like that's my joy to bring them to like, because too often the shitty people get ahead because they break the rules. You know, even if you look in law, just in law, like I was, law is, so those billboards you see. You know, the Morgan and Morgan or the Sure, yeah. The other ones, like, those guys are not doing any trials. They're just marketing and pretending. Right? Sure. And there's so many lawyers who care, but they don't wanna, they don't wanna do that. Like, there's also, there's tons of founders who care about their [01:07:00] customer, who, you know, who do returns, who, who, who go above and beyond. And they're not gonna lie to get ahead, but they don't have to. They just have to kinda learn how to use marketing and branding strategies. And they can beat the competition without having to compromise their character. [01:07:15] Travis Bader: You know, just even in my small industry here, I look at, there's some businesses out there that just, they'll try and hack SEO, they'll lie, they got fake locations up, they've got. Um, they'll piggyback off of other people's geolocations by trying to advertise themselves. And I think after a while that becomes evident to some, maybe it works in some ways. Typically you'd think Google would pick this stuff up, but there's some real hacks out there. Um, most of them don't want to go down that route 'cause they got enough self-respect to not lie, cheat and steal, to try and get themselves ahead, uh, for those people, what are the most common mistakes that you see when you come in with Third Eye? Uh, people making, [01:07:58] Phillip Millar: they're just, they're believing [01:08:00] what's so-called experts say is true, but the experts are just perpetuating what they make money off of. [01:08:06] Travis Bader: Right? [01:08:07] Phillip Millar: It's the same as in law. You know, like they just, you know, if somebody specializes in root canals as a dentist, all studies show they're going to, they're gonna suggest way more root canals that aren't necessary, right? So problem is the founders so busy. If they're trying to figure out what's happening and they think, okay, if I just, if I just pay for the, the best known agency or lawyer in town, I'll get the best service. It's not always the case. So get, you know, get to know, get to know the people, ask them the right questions. And in today's world, you don't have to hire locally. You can hire nationally and get the strategies, you know, from people who are the best. But, you know, do your research. It's not, it's not a billboard, it's not a fake claim. But no, that's what I would say. [01:08:48] Travis Bader: Yeah. I remember looking for a marketing company and a friend of mine who's in marketing and she says, look, I've done research, I've shortlisted, uh, some companies for you. Here you go. And I started going through these different companies and there's [01:09:00] one, and it's a high dollar value one. I'm like, there's no way I'm putting them, I'm putting them aside. And I worked my way through all these different companies and. Where I thought I would save money with these cheaper companies was within the first minute of the conversation with the owner of this hired value company, origin Outside. Now Origin. Um, first minute of the conversation with the owner, I'm like, okay, she gets it. She knows where it's sat. I don't know how I'm gonna afford this, but we're gonna have to go with them. But there's a very human factor of caring and truly wanting to understand where you're at now and how to get you forward. The other ones, although yeah, they're cheaper, um, they were just boilerplate, uh, [01:09:42] Phillip Millar: in the, in the marketing world, the problem is you got two types of marketers and marketing agencies, the kind of community college educated people that are essentially graphic designers. Sure. So they'll do a lot of activity, but no impact. Mm. The, the big agencies, the people who are in marketing, they went to MBAs. [01:09:59] Travis Bader: Mm. [01:10:00] [01:10:00] Phillip Millar: But to get into business school, you need to know calculus. [01:10:03] Travis Bader: Right. [01:10:03] Phillip Millar: And nine times outta 10 people are good at calculus, are not creative. Right. And so the people out of MBAs who get into marketing are the ones who can't get into finance. 'cause finance pays more, [01:10:13] Travis Bader: right? [01:10:14] Phillip Millar: So about getting in marketing agencies are MBAs who aren't creative, but weren't the top MBAs, [01:10:21] Travis Bader: right? Yep. [01:10:21] Phillip Millar: So what you need to find is, but, but those are, they're built like law firms. They're built on billable hours. They're built on you just accepting I know more and doing what I tell you, right? Mm-hmm. And what you need, and your, what you need is strategy. So I would ask strategic questions, okay, what would you, you know, how would you take a company like this to allow 'em to scale here, working within these confines? Like see if the, and then ask 'em to come back and say, gimme three samples of what you might do. I don't know, like there's ways to hire good people, but in the marketing world, you don't have, this is why I love it, because it's not populated with the highest intellect people who think strategically. So it's easy to dominate because it, it doesn't attract those people. And, and [01:11:00] any, you always wanna be the top dog in your industry. You don't wanna go compete against geniuses. Yeah. Like that. That's, that's the angle. [01:11:08] Travis Bader: Well, what's the future? What's the future of Malar Law and Third Eye Insights and what's the future for you? What is, uh, what's on the docket? [01:11:15] Phillip Millar: It's not politics because there's no way, you know, unless everything breaks down and we need to do something. 'cause, but, you know, I'd love to help, I'd love to help some political more, I'm helping a few political people, but I'd love to help build a coalition in Canada of critical thinkers who can come up with ideas that can help the country. [01:11:33] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [01:11:34] Phillip Millar: You know, I wanna be, I can't get people to debate me, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. On topics. No, liberals wanna debate, you know, uh, thinkers. [01:11:42] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. The law [01:11:42] Phillip Millar: firm is good. You know, I'm trying to hand, I, it's hard to find good lawyers who are this passionate and who wanna work in kind of a special ops type environment. [01:11:50] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. [01:11:50] Phillip Millar: Most of them wanna have a corner office be considered brilliant and not care. Right. So I'm always, I'm looking for lawyers who give a shit, wanna work hard and have meaning. It's [01:12:00] just really hard to find that in the legal industry. [01:12:03] Travis Bader: Yeah. Because I want, [01:12:03] Phillip Millar: I wanna hand off some of my great cases to these new, to a new generation of people who want, who haven't been exhausted in as many battles. I still take, you know, some big cases every year mm-hmm. And fight them. But I'm a sucker for saying yes when I'm, when I'm busy, you know? Yeah. But, you know, coaching, uh, you know, I got, I get equity in some of these good businesses for helping them through, like, that brings me the most joy. But in the end, money is one thing, but you know, you wanna make a difference. 'cause I, I'm worried about our society. Like, I'm worried about what's happening with our youth and, and where we're going. And I think people think it's, it won't crumble and they don't, they haven't seen the destruction that can exist in the universe if, if you lose your societal values. And I'm, I'm worried about where we're going, so I'm, I'm looking for ways to try and help out. [01:12:52] Travis Bader: Well, I'm looking, uh, I'm looking to see what we can do to help promote that through the podcast and through the newsletter here. Um, we've also [01:13:00] got the Silver Court Club Private Members podcast. It's the, the outpost. We'll do a quick record on that one with some, uh, rapid fire questions for you. Um, we're gonna have links in the description. We're gonna have, uh, links over to your social media so they can see some of the, uh, the Rogue lawyer, uh, clips, which have gone viral, which is pretty cool. And, uh, some of the work you've done. Uh, anything else we should be chatting about before we, uh, to wrap this one? [01:13:27] Phillip Millar: No, dude, I'm happy the universe brought us into contact. I'm gonna check out your, uh, what you do and see if I can support you as well. [01:13:34] Travis Bader: I've got a, I've got an interesting story for you afterwards too, which at some point will be shared on the Silver Core Podcast, but, um, uh, hasn't happened yet. Some people might know what I'm talking about, but, uh, Philip, thank you very much for being on the podcast, really enjoying this. You [01:14:00] welcome.